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Who knew a site which thrives on abolishing all personal boundaries in digital prostitution would have problems. You can't expect customers to be courteous and

by Bayart 5y ago

Who knew a site which thrives on abolishing all personal boundaries in digital prostitution would have problems. You can't expect customers to be courteous and professional with you if the product is sex, all the more so if you're leveraging the illusion of a social relationship. It's a one or the other proposition. There's no in-between, there's no picking both. The entire thing is schizophrenic.

throw_m239339 5y ago
But hey, "sex work is work"! We're not going to solve anything with that kind of simplistic catchphrase that mask all the problems regarding this sort of activity. That has never helped and it's frankly flat out false. Prostitution or porn isn't just work for the majority of the women involved in that 'industry' that victimizes them.
- Bayart 5y ago
  I completely agree ! I don't know what would lead you to believe I take sex work as just another trade. Quite the opposite, I assert that because it is not simply « a job », you can't treat it as such and blur boundaries while expecting to be safe, be it physically or mentally. I think the entire model is noxious, save for whoever's collecting the money and conveniently washing their hands of any responsibility.
hnbad 5y ago
You might want to reevaluate the reasons why you think this is self-evident and where they come from. It's true that these problems are unavoidable in the current status quo of society but that's almost tautological. The question is why that is, what factors contribute to this and whether we can and should overcome them. EDIT: To be clear, this does not mean that sex work wouldn't/shouldn't ultimately be abolished, but saying essentially "well, you try to sell sex as a service, so of course you'll be abused and violated" borders on victim blaming and doesn't address the problem anymore than a doctor saying "if it hurts when you touch there, just stop touching there".
KaiserPro 5y ago
I'm not quite understanding your assertion here. are you saying that because people are selling pictures/videos of them selves doing sexy things, we should expect and accept that people are violent to them? I mean, chat shows are pretty much the same thing, an illusion of a social relationship, but we don't accept stalkers on those platforms? why does nakedness change that?
- Bayart 5y ago
  >we should expect and accept that people are violent to them? Accept no, expect absolutely. Which is why boundaries and control mechanisms are needed, the removal of which is the entire premise of OnlyFans. >I mean, chat shows are pretty much the same thing, an illusion of a social relationship, but we don't accept stalkers on those platforms? Are you referring to Twitch ? That's not the same thing, at all. Sex isn't a minor variable. It re-frames the entire problem in a context where people lose the ability to appropriately parse and manage their para-social relationships. Furthermore Twitch itself (other platforms aren't really worth mentioning) doesn't encourage entertainer-user relationship beyond the only tools it provides : the chat box and the stream. Everything else is external, and that includes OnlyFans !
  - galgalesh 5y ago
    > Sex isn't a minor variable. It re-frames the entire problem in a context where people lose the ability to appropriately parse and manage their para-social relationships What is the reason people lose the ability to appropriately parse and manage themselves in the context of sex?
    - JohnWhigham 5y ago
      What is the reason people lose the ability to appropriately parse and manage themselves in the context of sex? Because you've lost the context of what sex is and what it has been in society, and in humanity as a whole. Sex is inherently primal, bestial, even brutal in nature. We've been trained over hundreds of thousands of years to build ourselves up to it and in return we get rewarded with brain chemicals and the continuation of our species. You can't just expect to rewire millions of years of evolutionary drive and wrap it up in a cute discrete transaction. You're ludicrous for even trying. Every job has its occupational hazards. These the hazards of selling your crotch online. Either accept it, or move on. Stop trying to frame it as some sort of empowering path when in reality peoples' lives just get ruined.
12ian34 5y ago
> You can't expect customers to be courteous and professional with you if the product is sex Whatever the product, even if there is no product, one should expect others to be courteous and professional and sex "workers" (I do believe it's real work, yes) deserve to expect this just as much as others - it's just a shame that so many men (not always, but generally) let them down so much.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
JohnWhigham 5y ago
This is what happens when there's no limits to anything. When nothing is sacred, and everything can be commoditized. This narrative is literally ripped right out of Brave New World.

by Bayart 5y ago

throw_m239339 5y ago

But hey, "sex work is work"! We're not going to solve anything with that kind of simplistic catchphrase that mask all the problems regarding this sort of activity. That has never helped and it's frankly flat out false. Prostitution or porn isn't just work for the majority of the women involved in that 'industry' that victimizes them.

Bayart 5y ago
I completely agree ! I don't know what would lead you to believe I take sex work as just another trade. Quite the opposite, I assert that because it is not simply « a job », you can't treat it as such and blur boundaries while expecting to be safe, be it physically or mentally. I think the entire model is noxious, save for whoever's collecting the money and conveniently washing their hands of any responsibility.

hnbad 5y ago

You might want to reevaluate the reasons why you think this is self-evident and where they come from. It's true that these problems are unavoidable in the current status quo of society but that's almost tautological. The question is why that is, what factors contribute to this and whether we can and should overcome them. EDIT: To be clear, this does not mean that sex work wouldn't/shouldn't ultimately be abolished, but saying essentially "well, you try to sell sex as a service, so of course you'll be abused and violated" borders on victim blaming and doesn't address the problem anymore than a doctor saying "if it hurts when you touch there, just stop touching there".

KaiserPro 5y ago

I'm not quite understanding your assertion here. are you saying that because people are selling pictures/videos of them selves doing sexy things, we should expect and accept that people are violent to them? I mean, chat shows are pretty much the same thing, an illusion of a social relationship, but we don't accept stalkers on those platforms? why does nakedness change that?

Bayart 5y ago
>we should expect and accept that people are violent to them? Accept no, expect absolutely. Which is why boundaries and control mechanisms are needed, the removal of which is the entire premise of OnlyFans. >I mean, chat shows are pretty much the same thing, an illusion of a social relationship, but we don't accept stalkers on those platforms? Are you referring to Twitch ? That's not the same thing, at all. Sex isn't a minor variable. It re-frames the entire problem in a context where people lose the ability to appropriately parse and manage their para-social relationships. Furthermore Twitch itself (other platforms aren't really worth mentioning) doesn't encourage entertainer-user relationship beyond the only tools it provides : the chat box and the stream. Everything else is external, and that includes OnlyFans !
- galgalesh 5y ago
  > Sex isn't a minor variable. It re-frames the entire problem in a context where people lose the ability to appropriately parse and manage their para-social relationships What is the reason people lose the ability to appropriately parse and manage themselves in the context of sex?
  - JohnWhigham 5y ago
    What is the reason people lose the ability to appropriately parse and manage themselves in the context of sex? Because you've lost the context of what sex is and what it has been in society, and in humanity as a whole. Sex is inherently primal, bestial, even brutal in nature. We've been trained over hundreds of thousands of years to build ourselves up to it and in return we get rewarded with brain chemicals and the continuation of our species. You can't just expect to rewire millions of years of evolutionary drive and wrap it up in a cute discrete transaction. You're ludicrous for even trying. Every job has its occupational hazards. These the hazards of selling your crotch online. Either accept it, or move on. Stop trying to frame it as some sort of empowering path when in reality peoples' lives just get ruined.

12ian34 5y ago

> You can't expect customers to be courteous and professional with you if the product is sex Whatever the product, even if there is no product, one should expect others to be courteous and professional and sex "workers" (I do believe it's real work, yes) deserve to expect this just as much as others - it's just a shame that so many men (not always, but generally) let them down so much.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

JohnWhigham 5y ago

This is what happens when there's no limits to anything. When nothing is sacred, and everything can be commoditized. This narrative is literally ripped right out of Brave New World.