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How terrible that local laws, written and enacted by the voting population they preside over, take precedent over international laws written and enacted by legi

by desine 5y ago

How terrible that local laws, written and enacted by the voting population they preside over, take precedent over international laws written and enacted by legislators several times more distantly removed from the population. Hopefully the UN gets enough funding to occupy the roles of state and municipal police soon. Then we can free the common man from the tyranny of local government.

trasz 5y ago
Erm, the root of the problem is that polish government is breaking polish law, in particular the constitution. It's not "polish constitution against EU", it's "polish government against polish constitution and the EU".
- blfr 5y ago
  > polish government is breaking polish law, in particular the constitution This is either not true or impossible to tell because Polish constitution was really poorly written with very many issues being delegated to lower acts. The Constitutional Tribunal gets to freely decide what is or isn't against the constitution and current Tribunal judges are favourable to the gov. It's as if the US constitution was stitched from multiple Commerce Clauses. The SCOTUS could rewrite it on the fly (they already do to some extent).
raverbashing 5y ago
You're free to write all local laws you want and the rest of the world is free to not buy anything for you and give you one cent for anything.
jeroenhd 5y ago
The whole point of international law is that countries choose to commit to following the same laws. There's no point signing any treaty if you're not planning on actually applying its legislation. If people they don't like the laws they've committed themselves to, they can choose not to follow them anymore. However, the advantages they receive in return, in this case the freedoms and economic benefits of being in the EU, will also disappear if they decide to play by their own rules. With the massive benefits Poland has gotten from the EU, I don't think it's in their interest to leave, especially since it doesn't have the negotiating power the UK had (and Brexit has been a series of catastrophes nonetheless). Nobody is forcing these people to follow foreign laws, it's just that they want the benefits without doing anything in return. The EU is not just a trade bloc, it's an institution to create a shared European ideal. They may not like the deal, but they're free to refuse it and negotiate a better one.
rad_gruchalski 5y ago
> How terrible that local laws, written and enacted by the voting population they preside over They're written by the politicians who were voted into power and who have certain vested interests in voting them. They were not voted by a population, sorry.
Dah00n 5y ago
>Hopefully the UN gets enough funding to occupy the roles of state and municipal police soon. Then we can free the common man from the tyranny of local government. Yeah, then you will all become yanks with government in Washington you can't vote for (why are we suddenly talking about the UN?)
majgr 5y ago
First, these local laws were against Polish Constitution, because politicians cannot influence judiciary and now they can and do, thus, breaking Rule of Law. Second, in Polish Constitution international agreements take precedence over local laws. By that EU Tribunal is actually defending Polish Constitution.

by desine 5y ago

trasz 5y ago

Erm, the root of the problem is that polish government is breaking polish law, in particular the constitution. It's not "polish constitution against EU", it's "polish government against polish constitution and the EU".

blfr 5y ago
> polish government is breaking polish law, in particular the constitution This is either not true or impossible to tell because Polish constitution was really poorly written with very many issues being delegated to lower acts. The Constitutional Tribunal gets to freely decide what is or isn't against the constitution and current Tribunal judges are favourable to the gov. It's as if the US constitution was stitched from multiple Commerce Clauses. The SCOTUS could rewrite it on the fly (they already do to some extent).

raverbashing 5y ago

You're free to write all local laws you want and the rest of the world is free to not buy anything for you and give you one cent for anything.

jeroenhd 5y ago

The whole point of international law is that countries choose to commit to following the same laws. There's no point signing any treaty if you're not planning on actually applying its legislation. If people they don't like the laws they've committed themselves to, they can choose not to follow them anymore. However, the advantages they receive in return, in this case the freedoms and economic benefits of being in the EU, will also disappear if they decide to play by their own rules. With the massive benefits Poland has gotten from the EU, I don't think it's in their interest to leave, especially since it doesn't have the negotiating power the UK had (and Brexit has been a series of catastrophes nonetheless). Nobody is forcing these people to follow foreign laws, it's just that they want the benefits without doing anything in return. The EU is not just a trade bloc, it's an institution to create a shared European ideal. They may not like the deal, but they're free to refuse it and negotiate a better one.

rad_gruchalski 5y ago

> How terrible that local laws, written and enacted by the voting population they preside over They're written by the politicians who were voted into power and who have certain vested interests in voting them. They were not voted by a population, sorry.

Dah00n 5y ago

>Hopefully the UN gets enough funding to occupy the roles of state and municipal police soon. Then we can free the common man from the tyranny of local government. Yeah, then you will all become yanks with government in Washington you can't vote for (why are we suddenly talking about the UN?)

majgr 5y ago

First, these local laws were against Polish Constitution, because politicians cannot influence judiciary and now they can and do, thus, breaking Rule of Law. Second, in Polish Constitution international agreements take precedence over local laws. By that EU Tribunal is actually defending Polish Constitution.