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I don't understand the author's focus on himself and his personal happiness, even though he is obviously entitled to it. This really illustrates the entire Mill

I don't understand the author's focus on himself and his personal happiness, even though he is obviously entitled to it. This really illustrates the entire Millennial focus on "do what makes you happy" to me. People don't live in the suburbs because they want access to museums and night clubs for themselves. They give up their own happiness for the sake of their children. They buy a more expensive home to put their children into a higher-achieving school. They live in a remote cul-de-sac so their children can safely ride bicycles and shoot hoops in the driveway. Their idea of "going out" is a drab, desiccated local park in the foothills because it is safe and healthy, not because it's fun or diverse. They put pressure on their kids to succeed so they can afford to live in this area when they grow up and repeat the cycle to become well-paid professionals and suburban parents. People pursue this stressful and family-focused lifestyle away from big, busy cities precisely because they want the same for their children, or better. When the author says that there is no clubbing or spontaneity in Silicon Valley, he demonstrates just how out of touch he is with our local communities, and how little he understood the motivations of the people living here. It makes all the sense in the world for him to move away and find a better fit for his personality! I hope he likes New York better! People live here because they are executing a very precise and demanding life plan for the sake of the next generation, not because they want to be spontaneous and fun. We don't need that here.

davidivadavid 5y ago
Oh boy, I have no idea what Silicon Valley really is like but you sure manage to make it sound absolutely horrifying. Sounding that smug, boring, authoritarian and exclusionary at the same time is impressive.
fridif 5y ago
I bought a house in the burbs for my own happiness, I will never tolerate city living ever again.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
emerged 5y ago
Basically none of what you just described rings true to me, for what it’s worth. I moved away from the big city because I love the quieter life in suburbia. I can stand to visit cities for a few days but much more and it really wears on me. Different strokes for different folks.
- gnicholas 5y ago
  I think you may have replied to the wrong comment.
  - emerged 5y ago
    I didn’t. I was responding to the sentiment that people don’t enjoy living in the suburbs, that they only move there in order to raise kids. I don’t even have kids I just don’t like living in big cities.
    - legerdemain 5y ago
      If you are paying Cupertino real estate prices to live by yourself, then you and I clearly have very different values. You could play DOTA for 12 hours a day anywhere else in the country for much cheaper.
      - emerged 5y ago
        Cupertino? DOTA? What are you talking about. I moved from a completely different city and to a completely different state. I also have no interest in video games. HN is so odd sometimes.
zaptrem 5y ago
He addresses this point with a quote. The suburbs can be boring/stifling for children as well. ** As noted, those are my preferences. Suburbs have “objective” problems, strip malls and parkings are ugly, cars are not eco friendly etc – but yes, there are people who love suburbs, relative safety (in US it’s a problem – at least a perceived one), having a large house, clean streets, and say that it’s good for family life. I cannot argue with anyone’s preferences and I respect that – different people have different needs. But I’d like to dispel a myth that suburbs are great for kids. It might be true when they are 1-10 years old, later it gets worse. As I mentioned, when I was ~14 I moved to suburbs – and I hated it… I think that for teenagers, it’s bad for their social life and ability to grow up as independent humans. Now being an adult, I think my parents have a very nice house and a beautiful garden and I can appreciate chilling there with a bbq – but back then I felt alone and isolated, and if it wasn’t for my friends in other parts of the city and great public transport, I’d be very miserable. Which teenager wants to be driven around and “helicoptered” by parents and have whole life revolving around school and “activities”? **
- legerdemain 5y ago
  Yes, and I think that's blatantly false in almost every way. South Bay (or at least Cupertino/Sunnyvale) is extremely teen-friendly. Lots of opportunities to hang out. You see groups of teens moving independently between local bubble tea shops, cafes, libraries, and town parks. Who do you even think patronizes the dozens of bubble tea shops and light snack places in the area, if not kids hanging out after school? The author's arguments about suburbs being bad for kids are that (a) he had an unhappy childhood and (b) that kids here have a high risk of suicide. The first is not something I can argue with, the second is simply false. Apart from the cluster of suicides at Palo Alto high schools in 2014, there has not been an elevated rate of suicide among local schoolchildren. Heck, I remember more suicides at my completely mediocre high school in urban New Jersey in the late 90s. It is a shame the author is perpetuating what is essentially an urban legend and a TV pundit talking point. The reality is, any interest my kids want to pursue, they basically have the best possible resources at their fingertips. The robotics team will have a coach who is an award-winning roboticist. If they're into marine ecology or music production or whatever, one of their classmates will have a parent who's a marine ecologist or the sound engineer for Stanford's theater program. Compare that to anywhere else in the country, where basically any hobby or interest your child pursues is limited to, like, the Boy Scouts or hanging out at the old shopping mall.
bartwr 5y ago
Hey, it's the OP here - I explicitly mention in my post issues with having kids in the SFBA / SV (competition, high suicide rates) and being a teenager in the suburbs (I grew up in the city center until moving to suburbs as a ~14yo and hated it - totally isolating and depressing) as things that I consider and think it's a myth. I think it might be a great place for a few year olds, but once the school starts, I personally wouldn't want to grow up in SV. But obviously YMMV.
- legerdemain 5y ago
  Yeah, no, parents value the Bay Area exactly for what it offers to older children and teens. You can live anywhere with a toddler, but you want your kids to spend their teens in South Bay. Why? - Some of the best high schools in the country. Many teachers have advanced degrees in their fields. A direct connection to Stanford and Berkeley. Courses beyond AP Calculus available for children to take. - You can raise your children in the church. You do not seem to understand what a luxury it is to have a vast choice of local churches, where many people you meet are doctors, engineers, lawyers, and other influential professionals. The Bay Area is composed of lots of tightly knit communities where people can exchange experiences, favors, and insights with others they can trust and relate to. Maybe you weren't able to break into one, so you couldn't see the benefits? - You overstate the pressure on local kids. Aside from a couple of tragic incidents at Palo Alto High several years ago, children in the area have lots of opportunities to hang out in bubble tea shops and cafes, visit friends, participate in sports, and basically do whatever they want to. The unique luxury of living in the Bay Area is that if you kid is over at a friend's house, you can rely on the mom to say, "Sure, you can play Zelda, but first let's do an hour of homework!" This unique and amazing culture of high achievement is what drives parents to the area at any cost.
  - bartwr 5y ago
    To be honest, all your points sound scary/depressing/unappealing to me. Like the last point - helicopter parenting - kind of creepy to be honest, yikes. But this might be a difference in our cultural backgrounds and how we grew up. But one thing that is not just matter of cultural background and preferences, but of facts and ongoing research - is that pressure, high expectations etc. do have a devastating effect on teenagers' mental health and mental wellbeing.
anyfoo 5y ago
As someone who grew up in a European city, the thought of instead having grown up in a suburb is terrifying to me. You don't need suburbs to have the life you describe, and it wasn't stressful at all.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
yhavr 5y ago
> "They give up their own happiness for the sake of their children" This sentence makes total sense for North Korean parents who work super-hard to afford smuggling their kids out of the country. But not for the richest region of the world superpower and the "citadel of democracy". > "They put pressure on their kids to succeed so they can afford to live in this area when they grow up and repeat the cycle to become well-paid professionals and suburban parents" I'd understand if they lived in a poor country, where being a "non well-paid professionals" meant constant suffering. But if a person "sacrifices" themselves so their kids can afford fancy car, hmm, something is suspicious here, isn't it? :-)
likeabbas 5y ago
Are you implying that the Bay Area is a great place for kids to grow up? Because I, and the author, argue that it's a terrible place for them. Also, are you implying that there is anything wrong with living a lifestyle without kids? Why would I want to raise a child in a world that will be undergoing tumultuous climate change over the next 100 years.

davidivadavid 5y ago

Oh boy, I have no idea what Silicon Valley really is like but you sure manage to make it sound absolutely horrifying. Sounding that smug, boring, authoritarian and exclusionary at the same time is impressive.

fridif 5y ago

I bought a house in the burbs for my own happiness, I will never tolerate city living ever again.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

emerged 5y ago

Basically none of what you just described rings true to me, for what it’s worth. I moved away from the big city because I love the quieter life in suburbia. I can stand to visit cities for a few days but much more and it really wears on me. Different strokes for different folks.

gnicholas 5y ago
I think you may have replied to the wrong comment.
- emerged 5y ago
  I didn’t. I was responding to the sentiment that people don’t enjoy living in the suburbs, that they only move there in order to raise kids. I don’t even have kids I just don’t like living in big cities.
  - legerdemain 5y ago
    If you are paying Cupertino real estate prices to live by yourself, then you and I clearly have very different values. You could play DOTA for 12 hours a day anywhere else in the country for much cheaper.
    - emerged 5y ago
      Cupertino? DOTA? What are you talking about. I moved from a completely different city and to a completely different state. I also have no interest in video games. HN is so odd sometimes.

zaptrem 5y ago

He addresses this point with a quote. The suburbs can be boring/stifling for children as well. ** As noted, those are my preferences. Suburbs have “objective” problems, strip malls and parkings are ugly, cars are not eco friendly etc – but yes, there are people who love suburbs, relative safety (in US it’s a problem – at least a perceived one), having a large house, clean streets, and say that it’s good for family life. I cannot argue with anyone’s preferences and I respect that – different people have different needs. But I’d like to dispel a myth that suburbs are great for kids. It might be true when they are 1-10 years old, later it gets worse. As I mentioned, when I was ~14 I moved to suburbs – and I hated it… I think that for teenagers, it’s bad for their social life and ability to grow up as independent humans. Now being an adult, I think my parents have a very nice house and a beautiful garden and I can appreciate chilling there with a bbq – but back then I felt alone and isolated, and if it wasn’t for my friends in other parts of the city and great public transport, I’d be very miserable. Which teenager wants to be driven around and “helicoptered” by parents and have whole life revolving around school and “activities”? **

legerdemain 5y ago
Yes, and I think that's blatantly false in almost every way. South Bay (or at least Cupertino/Sunnyvale) is extremely teen-friendly. Lots of opportunities to hang out. You see groups of teens moving independently between local bubble tea shops, cafes, libraries, and town parks. Who do you even think patronizes the dozens of bubble tea shops and light snack places in the area, if not kids hanging out after school? The author's arguments about suburbs being bad for kids are that (a) he had an unhappy childhood and (b) that kids here have a high risk of suicide. The first is not something I can argue with, the second is simply false. Apart from the cluster of suicides at Palo Alto high schools in 2014, there has not been an elevated rate of suicide among local schoolchildren. Heck, I remember more suicides at my completely mediocre high school in urban New Jersey in the late 90s. It is a shame the author is perpetuating what is essentially an urban legend and a TV pundit talking point. The reality is, any interest my kids want to pursue, they basically have the best possible resources at their fingertips. The robotics team will have a coach who is an award-winning roboticist. If they're into marine ecology or music production or whatever, one of their classmates will have a parent who's a marine ecologist or the sound engineer for Stanford's theater program. Compare that to anywhere else in the country, where basically any hobby or interest your child pursues is limited to, like, the Boy Scouts or hanging out at the old shopping mall.

bartwr 5y ago

Hey, it's the OP here - I explicitly mention in my post issues with having kids in the SFBA / SV (competition, high suicide rates) and being a teenager in the suburbs (I grew up in the city center until moving to suburbs as a ~14yo and hated it - totally isolating and depressing) as things that I consider and think it's a myth. I think it might be a great place for a few year olds, but once the school starts, I personally wouldn't want to grow up in SV. But obviously YMMV.

legerdemain 5y ago
Yeah, no, parents value the Bay Area exactly for what it offers to older children and teens. You can live anywhere with a toddler, but you want your kids to spend their teens in South Bay. Why? - Some of the best high schools in the country. Many teachers have advanced degrees in their fields. A direct connection to Stanford and Berkeley. Courses beyond AP Calculus available for children to take. - You can raise your children in the church. You do not seem to understand what a luxury it is to have a vast choice of local churches, where many people you meet are doctors, engineers, lawyers, and other influential professionals. The Bay Area is composed of lots of tightly knit communities where people can exchange experiences, favors, and insights with others they can trust and relate to. Maybe you weren't able to break into one, so you couldn't see the benefits? - You overstate the pressure on local kids. Aside from a couple of tragic incidents at Palo Alto High several years ago, children in the area have lots of opportunities to hang out in bubble tea shops and cafes, visit friends, participate in sports, and basically do whatever they want to. The unique luxury of living in the Bay Area is that if you kid is over at a friend's house, you can rely on the mom to say, "Sure, you can play Zelda, but first let's do an hour of homework!" This unique and amazing culture of high achievement is what drives parents to the area at any cost.
- bartwr 5y ago
  To be honest, all your points sound scary/depressing/unappealing to me. Like the last point - helicopter parenting - kind of creepy to be honest, yikes. But this might be a difference in our cultural backgrounds and how we grew up. But one thing that is not just matter of cultural background and preferences, but of facts and ongoing research - is that pressure, high expectations etc. do have a devastating effect on teenagers' mental health and mental wellbeing.

anyfoo 5y ago

As someone who grew up in a European city, the thought of instead having grown up in a suburb is terrifying to me. You don't need suburbs to have the life you describe, and it wasn't stressful at all.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

yhavr 5y ago

> "They give up their own happiness for the sake of their children" This sentence makes total sense for North Korean parents who work super-hard to afford smuggling their kids out of the country. But not for the richest region of the world superpower and the "citadel of democracy". > "They put pressure on their kids to succeed so they can afford to live in this area when they grow up and repeat the cycle to become well-paid professionals and suburban parents" I'd understand if they lived in a poor country, where being a "non well-paid professionals" meant constant suffering. But if a person "sacrifices" themselves so their kids can afford fancy car, hmm, something is suspicious here, isn't it? :-)

likeabbas 5y ago

Are you implying that the Bay Area is a great place for kids to grow up? Because I, and the author, argue that it's a terrible place for them. Also, are you implying that there is anything wrong with living a lifestyle without kids? Why would I want to raise a child in a world that will be undergoing tumultuous climate change over the next 100 years.