4 ms·

So what should be done? Hire your own lawyers to go after them pro bono? Write an article and send it to the papers? This kind of thing needs to be shamed and

So what should be done? Hire your own lawyers to go after them pro bono? Write an article and send it to the papers? This kind of thing needs to be shamed and punished. While I agree that the institutions can be expected to cover there ass, there must be a course of action.

michaelmrose 5y ago
Monies paid for students education should be conditioned on not being skeevy and unethical. Basically just arrange the penalties such that outright fraud is effectively the death penalty for the institution and lesser malfeasance is still financially disastrous. Wait for one really good case and let the papers instead discuss how a century old institution collapsed.
h0l0cube 5y ago
We just need a 'Yelp for research institutions'. Perhaps there already exists a global register tracking reputation like this? If so it needs to be visible (particularly to the press) and be properly vetted to have real consequence
- zentiggr 5y ago
  Wow... pick an already known to be basically unethical organization as a possible solution to unethical behavior. Not that there's any way in our current culture to assemble a truly impartial reputation tracker, but surely we can do better than Yelp.
  - h0l0cube 5y ago
    I was being a bit facetious, but it didn't translate :)
prawn 5y ago
Tip off a newspaper. If they don't take it, try another. Generally, the journalists will have training in how to approach it without legal exposure and/or have it vetted by their publication's lawyers.
mr_toad 5y ago
> While I agree that the institutions can be expected to cover there ass Should we have that expectation? If a person does it we call it concealing evidence, intimidation, and perverting the course of justice. On the other hand, if they confess right away, we treat them leniently. Why should institutions differ?
- krige 5y ago
  Because institutions are not individuals. They do not possess a conscience, morality, or any other humane emotion that makes leniency possible and produce favourable outcomes.
  - OtomotO 5y ago
    is an institution not a group of people as well? People with consciences, moralities and other human emotions? If not, what's the difference to any other organisation such as, in an absolute extreme form, an army or a "terror"group apart from the agenda. Really curious, not trying to construct a strawman!
    - Quekid5 5y ago
      > is an institution not a group of people as well? People with consciences, moralities and other human emotions? Yes, but the point being made is that in the case of organizations the whole doesn't necessarily have the properties of its constituent parts. > If not, what's the difference to any other organisation such as, in an absolute extreme form, an army or a "terror"group apart from the agenda. Not sure what you mean by this. Difference from what to any other organization and why that relevant? You find immoral, illegal, etc. activity in institutions/organizations across a broad spectrum of areas.
      - xvector 5y ago
        > the whole doesn't necessarily have the properties of its constituent parts. This is because the "constituent parts" - members of the organization - are often just terrible human beings that hide behind the concept of an institution to shield themselves from the cognitive dissonance caused by their own unethical actions. If an institution does something unethical it can always be traced to its employees. As an example, all the researchers involved in promoting this fake health product ought to be fired and academically blackballed. It really is that simple. That's how we can deal with institutional rot.

michaelmrose 5y ago

Monies paid for students education should be conditioned on not being skeevy and unethical. Basically just arrange the penalties such that outright fraud is effectively the death penalty for the institution and lesser malfeasance is still financially disastrous. Wait for one really good case and let the papers instead discuss how a century old institution collapsed.

h0l0cube 5y ago

We just need a 'Yelp for research institutions'. Perhaps there already exists a global register tracking reputation like this? If so it needs to be visible (particularly to the press) and be properly vetted to have real consequence

zentiggr 5y ago
Wow... pick an already known to be basically unethical organization as a possible solution to unethical behavior. Not that there's any way in our current culture to assemble a truly impartial reputation tracker, but surely we can do better than Yelp.
- h0l0cube 5y ago
  I was being a bit facetious, but it didn't translate :)

prawn 5y ago

Tip off a newspaper. If they don't take it, try another. Generally, the journalists will have training in how to approach it without legal exposure and/or have it vetted by their publication's lawyers.

mr_toad 5y ago

> While I agree that the institutions can be expected to cover there ass Should we have that expectation? If a person does it we call it concealing evidence, intimidation, and perverting the course of justice. On the other hand, if they confess right away, we treat them leniently. Why should institutions differ?

krige 5y ago
Because institutions are not individuals. They do not possess a conscience, morality, or any other humane emotion that makes leniency possible and produce favourable outcomes.
- OtomotO 5y ago
  is an institution not a group of people as well? People with consciences, moralities and other human emotions? If not, what's the difference to any other organisation such as, in an absolute extreme form, an army or a "terror"group apart from the agenda. Really curious, not trying to construct a strawman!
  - Quekid5 5y ago
    > is an institution not a group of people as well? People with consciences, moralities and other human emotions? Yes, but the point being made is that in the case of organizations the whole doesn't necessarily have the properties of its constituent parts. > If not, what's the difference to any other organisation such as, in an absolute extreme form, an army or a "terror"group apart from the agenda. Not sure what you mean by this. Difference from what to any other organization and why that relevant? You find immoral, illegal, etc. activity in institutions/organizations across a broad spectrum of areas.
    - xvector 5y ago
      > the whole doesn't necessarily have the properties of its constituent parts. This is because the "constituent parts" - members of the organization - are often just terrible human beings that hide behind the concept of an institution to shield themselves from the cognitive dissonance caused by their own unethical actions. If an institution does something unethical it can always be traced to its employees. As an example, all the researchers involved in promoting this fake health product ought to be fired and academically blackballed. It really is that simple. That's how we can deal with institutional rot.