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Sadly, most people when hearing this will prefer to argue to the death to support their "choice" of ${favorite giant corporate product} and try to tell you "you

Sadly, most people when hearing this will prefer to argue to the death to support their "choice" of ${favorite giant corporate product} and try to tell you "you're just being paranoid". We live in a world where a great many people will accept the most outlandish conspiracy theories as undeniable fact with little to no supporting evidence, but when you try to warn them about real and verifiable concerns, it doesn't matter how much proof there is… You're automatically wrong in their eyes. What's more terrifying than that? Some of those people hold positions of great power in this world.

TaylorAlexander 5y ago
We've got to get to them before microsoft and google do. Teach Linux in schools and about the importance of FLOSS. In my school in California it was all windows in the 1990's and 2000's.
- blooalien 5y ago
  > In my school in California it was all windows in the 1990's and 2000's. Yeah, it was that way even before that. Microsoft and Apple got into a "donation war" tryin'a get their corporate garbage into schools back when I was a kid. Looks like Microsoft largely won that war. Hard to fight multiple generations deep corporate brainwashing.
  - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
    Ah yes, the efficiency of the free market. Where companies with deep pockets get kids hooked on their product early so they can abuse them for the rest of their lives. In these cases I think administrative oversight of broad and long term benefits to society is important, rather than the more narrow decision of "this choice will benefit next year's budget". Early offers by Microsoft were in a way a trap that kept schools and students paying for decades.
    - blfr 5y ago
      Ah yes, the efficiency of the free market. Schools in California are government-run, zoned, and compulsory. A complete opposite of the free market.
      - Clubber 5y ago
        That purchased operating systems created by the free market.
      - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
        I suppose I specifically mean free-market thinking applied to government services. This would be a symptom of neoliberalism. [1] Allowing discounts from private corporations to influence government policy, instead of looking at what would be best from a broader perspective. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
  - idiotsecant 5y ago
    >tryin'a
  - amatecha 5y ago
    Eh, I mean, I grew up with Macs at home and school and have definitely seen the light of free/libre software. That said, it took a long time, and it was also largely because I have always been quite conscious of privacy (and to a lesser degree, security). It is still indeed an uphill battle for all the "I have nothing to hide" average people who just act like you're paranoid for even bringing up the subject of privacy.
revscat 5y ago
Do you have an example of someone who holds that belief? That feels like one of those stereotypes that people are sure exists but actually doesn’t.
- blooalien 5y ago
  > Do you have an example of someone who holds that belief? Which belief? The belief that corporate spyware devices and software are infinitely superior to anything in the F/L/OSS world? I literally can't escape 'em. Especially in "gamer" circles, I get endlessly hassled by Windows users tryin'a convince me with decades old Steve Ballmer FUD that Linux is inferior junk and a cancer on the software industry, and that I should just switch to Windows. > That feels like one of those stereotypes that people are sure exists but actually doesn’t. Sadly, you name a stereotype, and I promise you there's people out there that'll do their best to prove that stereotype true. Cryin' shame, because they're just doin' harm to an entire group of folks who never asked for it, and harming an entire other group that believes false stereotypes are true by reinforcing their wrongness with "proof". As to the bein' called "paranoid" from my earlier comment, it happens to me frequently when I try to talk to people about backups, network security practices, or passwords, and I'm not alone there. I've had more'n a few discussions with other IT folks who've met frequent resistance to security ideas until after there's been an issue, and then the "people in charge" still generally wanna seek the absolute minimum solution they can get that they think would cover their asses, even if it's nowhere close to enough of a solution for the problem at hand.
  - SantalBlush 5y ago
    >Sadly, you name a stereotype, and I promise you there's people out there that'll do their best to prove that stereotype true. The point is that it takes more than just a few people to validate a stereotype; otherwise, I could make up any stereotype I want, and by your admission, it would be valid. But that isn't how sterotypes work.
    - Talanes 5y ago
      >The point is that it takes more than just a few people to validate a stereotype; otherwise, I could make up any stereotype I want, and by your admission, it would be valid. But that isn't how sterotypes work. The point wasn't to have a discussion of the semantic definitions of what makes something a stereotype, GP was merely asserting that such people might not actually exist and asking for an example. An example was provided.

TaylorAlexander 5y ago

We've got to get to them before microsoft and google do. Teach Linux in schools and about the importance of FLOSS. In my school in California it was all windows in the 1990's and 2000's.

blooalien 5y ago
> In my school in California it was all windows in the 1990's and 2000's. Yeah, it was that way even before that. Microsoft and Apple got into a "donation war" tryin'a get their corporate garbage into schools back when I was a kid. Looks like Microsoft largely won that war. Hard to fight multiple generations deep corporate brainwashing.
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
  Ah yes, the efficiency of the free market. Where companies with deep pockets get kids hooked on their product early so they can abuse them for the rest of their lives. In these cases I think administrative oversight of broad and long term benefits to society is important, rather than the more narrow decision of "this choice will benefit next year's budget". Early offers by Microsoft were in a way a trap that kept schools and students paying for decades.
  - blfr 5y ago
    Ah yes, the efficiency of the free market. Schools in California are government-run, zoned, and compulsory. A complete opposite of the free market.
    - Clubber 5y ago
      That purchased operating systems created by the free market.
    - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
      I suppose I specifically mean free-market thinking applied to government services. This would be a symptom of neoliberalism. [1] Allowing discounts from private corporations to influence government policy, instead of looking at what would be best from a broader perspective. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
- idiotsecant 5y ago
  >tryin'a
- amatecha 5y ago
  Eh, I mean, I grew up with Macs at home and school and have definitely seen the light of free/libre software. That said, it took a long time, and it was also largely because I have always been quite conscious of privacy (and to a lesser degree, security). It is still indeed an uphill battle for all the "I have nothing to hide" average people who just act like you're paranoid for even bringing up the subject of privacy.

revscat 5y ago

Do you have an example of someone who holds that belief? That feels like one of those stereotypes that people are sure exists but actually doesn’t.

blooalien 5y ago
> Do you have an example of someone who holds that belief? Which belief? The belief that corporate spyware devices and software are infinitely superior to anything in the F/L/OSS world? I literally can't escape 'em. Especially in "gamer" circles, I get endlessly hassled by Windows users tryin'a convince me with decades old Steve Ballmer FUD that Linux is inferior junk and a cancer on the software industry, and that I should just switch to Windows. > That feels like one of those stereotypes that people are sure exists but actually doesn’t. Sadly, you name a stereotype, and I promise you there's people out there that'll do their best to prove that stereotype true. Cryin' shame, because they're just doin' harm to an entire group of folks who never asked for it, and harming an entire other group that believes false stereotypes are true by reinforcing their wrongness with "proof". As to the bein' called "paranoid" from my earlier comment, it happens to me frequently when I try to talk to people about backups, network security practices, or passwords, and I'm not alone there. I've had more'n a few discussions with other IT folks who've met frequent resistance to security ideas until after there's been an issue, and then the "people in charge" still generally wanna seek the absolute minimum solution they can get that they think would cover their asses, even if it's nowhere close to enough of a solution for the problem at hand.
- SantalBlush 5y ago
  >Sadly, you name a stereotype, and I promise you there's people out there that'll do their best to prove that stereotype true. The point is that it takes more than just a few people to validate a stereotype; otherwise, I could make up any stereotype I want, and by your admission, it would be valid. But that isn't how sterotypes work.
  - Talanes 5y ago
    >The point is that it takes more than just a few people to validate a stereotype; otherwise, I could make up any stereotype I want, and by your admission, it would be valid. But that isn't how sterotypes work. The point wasn't to have a discussion of the semantic definitions of what makes something a stereotype, GP was merely asserting that such people might not actually exist and asking for an example. An example was provided.