5 ms·

Modi is a fundamental nationalist, and this is one of literally a hundred other bad things that has been done. Basic playbook for this kind of ruler is to dism

by r00fus 5y ago

Modi is a fundamental nationalist, and this is one of literally a hundred other bad things that has been done. Basic playbook for this kind of ruler is to dismantle democracy - and illegally spying on his opponents is the first step (to remove all opposition).

ithkuil 5y ago
I'm not saying the opposite or otherwise supporting Modi. I was trying to make a more subtle point about our ability to discuss things without always being reminded of the all too important political struggles we all have to pay attention to. Your comment seems to prove my point that we all have this instinct of making sure everybody is reminded that if you just hint that somebody awful could perhaps accidentally have stumbled upon a policy that could make sense, you should never talk about that, otherwise you'll give your opponent a validation. I know, that's how we humans work. I'm just saying that sometimes it's a bit unfortunate that we do work that way.
- r00fus 5y ago
  No, that's not my intent at all - but wouldn't it be considered offtopic to bring up some other positives just to "balance" the discussion? If it's pertinent, by all means bring it up - but you're just bringing up theoretical seems all a bit ivory tower.
  - ithkuil 5y ago
    Please look at the nick names of who makes comments. I was not the one bringing up the positives, I have no idea about anything in Indian politics, not indian, not living there either. I was just pointing out a logical fallacy in one replay because this is a forum of nerds and nerds love to pick nits. The world would be such a nicer place if people political fumes wouldn't intoxicate brains of otherwise sensible people.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  In fact, my experience is the opposite with right-wing nationalist populists (Modi, Netanyahu, Orban, Trump, Boris Johnson to a significant degree, etc.): People don't talk about the political catastrophes; they talk about everything else. One reason is that if you try to talk about the political catastrophes, people try to shut you down. > could perhaps accidentally have stumbled upon a policy that could make sense 'but how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?' > I'm not saying the opposite or otherwise supporting Modi. So what do you say about Modi?
  - ithkuil 5y ago
    > So what do you say about Modi? Oh that's easier to answer; there is thread above. TL;DR The GP of my first comment said: "the best policies are that of the government in power" The parent answered: "Taking away Indians' freedoms, brutalizing minorities,..." I just said that it's a bit unfortunate that most of these discussions never really touch whether what GP said is true or false, i.e. whether the policies of the government are indeed best. Instead the answer points out how other policies are awful. Now, I personally agree that those things listed are awful and I'd never support such political party. But, logically, that is not an argument against what original GP said. I find it unfortunate that we are unable to talk about those things candidly.
naruvimama 5y ago
Nationalist in the European context is clearly one language, one religion and one culture. In the India context, nationalism is a unifying force finding a commonality beyond the hundreds of diverse languages and cultures that India is made of. I do not see why that is a bad thing.
- r00fus 5y ago
  India had all that before Modi. No, I definitely don't think Modi is a good guy.
  - naruvimama 5y ago
    That is because Indians have always been patriots inspite of the poverty. You may think that, but the people of India think otherwise and that if why he has an overwhelming popularity.
    - addicted 5y ago
      He has overwhelming popularity because he is good at lying to people. When it comes to state elections the Modi government has been getting creamed because his subordinates at the state level are not as good as lying to people.
- random314 5y ago
  > In the India context, nationalism is a unifying force finding a commonality beyond the hundreds of diverse languages and cultures that India is made of. You skipped the key plank of nationalist Indian politics - religion. Who are the new Jews of India? The backstabbers of the nation? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth
  - naruvimama 5y ago
    Unlike the Jews in Germany, the Muslims and Christians in India are very much Indian. As the recent PEW survey shows, a large percentage hold Hindu values and think of it as culturally superior. Hinduism is also the culture of converted peoples, as the vast majority were coerced to convert. Importing the experience of Europe into India is meaningless.
returnInfinity 5y ago
India is a large diverse country. Every state has its own set of local rulers. Nothing can change this.

by r00fus 5y ago

ithkuil 5y ago

I'm not saying the opposite or otherwise supporting Modi. I was trying to make a more subtle point about our ability to discuss things without always being reminded of the all too important political struggles we all have to pay attention to. Your comment seems to prove my point that we all have this instinct of making sure everybody is reminded that if you just hint that somebody awful could perhaps accidentally have stumbled upon a policy that could make sense, you should never talk about that, otherwise you'll give your opponent a validation. I know, that's how we humans work. I'm just saying that sometimes it's a bit unfortunate that we do work that way.

r00fus 5y ago
No, that's not my intent at all - but wouldn't it be considered offtopic to bring up some other positives just to "balance" the discussion? If it's pertinent, by all means bring it up - but you're just bringing up theoretical seems all a bit ivory tower.
- ithkuil 5y ago
  Please look at the nick names of who makes comments. I was not the one bringing up the positives, I have no idea about anything in Indian politics, not indian, not living there either. I was just pointing out a logical fallacy in one replay because this is a forum of nerds and nerds love to pick nits. The world would be such a nicer place if people political fumes wouldn't intoxicate brains of otherwise sensible people.
wolverine876 5y ago
In fact, my experience is the opposite with right-wing nationalist populists (Modi, Netanyahu, Orban, Trump, Boris Johnson to a significant degree, etc.): People don't talk about the political catastrophes; they talk about everything else. One reason is that if you try to talk about the political catastrophes, people try to shut you down. > could perhaps accidentally have stumbled upon a policy that could make sense 'but how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?' > I'm not saying the opposite or otherwise supporting Modi. So what do you say about Modi?
- ithkuil 5y ago
  > So what do you say about Modi? Oh that's easier to answer; there is thread above. TL;DR The GP of my first comment said: "the best policies are that of the government in power" The parent answered: "Taking away Indians' freedoms, brutalizing minorities,..." I just said that it's a bit unfortunate that most of these discussions never really touch whether what GP said is true or false, i.e. whether the policies of the government are indeed best. Instead the answer points out how other policies are awful. Now, I personally agree that those things listed are awful and I'd never support such political party. But, logically, that is not an argument against what original GP said. I find it unfortunate that we are unable to talk about those things candidly.

naruvimama 5y ago

Nationalist in the European context is clearly one language, one religion and one culture. In the India context, nationalism is a unifying force finding a commonality beyond the hundreds of diverse languages and cultures that India is made of. I do not see why that is a bad thing.

r00fus 5y ago
India had all that before Modi. No, I definitely don't think Modi is a good guy.
- naruvimama 5y ago
  That is because Indians have always been patriots inspite of the poverty. You may think that, but the people of India think otherwise and that if why he has an overwhelming popularity.
  - addicted 5y ago
    He has overwhelming popularity because he is good at lying to people. When it comes to state elections the Modi government has been getting creamed because his subordinates at the state level are not as good as lying to people.
random314 5y ago
> In the India context, nationalism is a unifying force finding a commonality beyond the hundreds of diverse languages and cultures that India is made of. You skipped the key plank of nationalist Indian politics - religion. Who are the new Jews of India? The backstabbers of the nation? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth
- naruvimama 5y ago
  Unlike the Jews in Germany, the Muslims and Christians in India are very much Indian. As the recent PEW survey shows, a large percentage hold Hindu values and think of it as culturally superior. Hinduism is also the culture of converted peoples, as the vast majority were coerced to convert. Importing the experience of Europe into India is meaningless.

returnInfinity 5y ago

India is a large diverse country. Every state has its own set of local rulers. Nothing can change this.