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In the last six months, I shifted my loyalty to Toyota from lame US car companies. I respect Toyota -- as a maker of fantastic cars, a moderate-thinking and c

In the last six months, I shifted my loyalty to Toyota from lame US car companies. I respect Toyota -- as a maker of fantastic cars, a moderate-thinking and compensating long term business, and as a good employer of US citizens. US car manufactures make shitty cars, sell out their future for bonuses for their shitty executives, and treat their unionized employees like shit (and according to NPR more of a Toyota is built in the US than a US car). I am proud to support Toyota, and the sooner the Big Three are forced to sell out out to "the japanese" the better.

smhinsey 15y ago
For what it's worth, Toyota built a plant in my hometown and of the 4 people I know who got jobs there, all of them eventually quit due to the anti-union shenanigans pulled by management. They are a good company, but not without their flaws. (And to be fair, I'm not sure how much of this behavior was influenced by corporate policy vs. typical small town closemindedness.)
- forkandwait 15y ago
  You know, I don't support unions as automatically as I used to. From my amateur interest in Toyota and industrial management, one of the major problems with unions isn't wages but inflexible work rules, seniority attached to certain very minutely defined jobs and no accompanying cross training/ rotation, and general bad attitude.
  - smhinsey 15y ago
    I've never worked for one, but it wasn't an ideological thing. If you worked with people for more than 6 months or so, you'd get your team broken up. If management found out that you were friends with a group of coworkers and were getting together outside of work, you'd get reassigned so none of you were working together. It was the harassment to prevent people from unionizing that that made it a bad working environment.
    - forkandwait 15y ago
      Yeah, that is sort of weird if it is like that. I don't have any personal experience at all, not even secondhand... but I know Toyota rotates people around all the time according to the books I am reading about them (which do have rose colored viewpoints). I hate to say it, but I have worked with production factory workers who would whine about anything -- having to do inventory, learn a new skill, meet a new person; I am a bit cynical about their complaints. Does "getting reassigned" == "harassment" ? maybe...
      - smhinsey 15y ago
        This was pretty specifically anti-union behavior, although obviously nothing was done that would generate any paper trail. I am sure there was some exaggeration due to human nature, but it is basically an open secret that large non-union shops will do just about anything to prevent unions from forming. It may be different for line employees, the people I knew worked skilled trades, electrician, hvac, etc.
        forkandwait 15y ago
        Interesting. I am not sure I blame them for fighting the unions, honestly, but there you go.

smhinsey 15y ago

For what it's worth, Toyota built a plant in my hometown and of the 4 people I know who got jobs there, all of them eventually quit due to the anti-union shenanigans pulled by management. They are a good company, but not without their flaws. (And to be fair, I'm not sure how much of this behavior was influenced by corporate policy vs. typical small town closemindedness.)

forkandwait 15y ago
You know, I don't support unions as automatically as I used to. From my amateur interest in Toyota and industrial management, one of the major problems with unions isn't wages but inflexible work rules, seniority attached to certain very minutely defined jobs and no accompanying cross training/ rotation, and general bad attitude.
- smhinsey 15y ago
  I've never worked for one, but it wasn't an ideological thing. If you worked with people for more than 6 months or so, you'd get your team broken up. If management found out that you were friends with a group of coworkers and were getting together outside of work, you'd get reassigned so none of you were working together. It was the harassment to prevent people from unionizing that that made it a bad working environment.
  - forkandwait 15y ago
    Yeah, that is sort of weird if it is like that. I don't have any personal experience at all, not even secondhand... but I know Toyota rotates people around all the time according to the books I am reading about them (which do have rose colored viewpoints). I hate to say it, but I have worked with production factory workers who would whine about anything -- having to do inventory, learn a new skill, meet a new person; I am a bit cynical about their complaints. Does "getting reassigned" == "harassment" ? maybe...
    - smhinsey 15y ago
      This was pretty specifically anti-union behavior, although obviously nothing was done that would generate any paper trail. I am sure there was some exaggeration due to human nature, but it is basically an open secret that large non-union shops will do just about anything to prevent unions from forming. It may be different for line employees, the people I knew worked skilled trades, electrician, hvac, etc.
      - forkandwait 15y ago
        Interesting. I am not sure I blame them for fighting the unions, honestly, but there you go.