4 ms·

The Israeli government classified Pegasus, the software by NSO currently in the news, as a weapon, thus restricting its exports. If you look at the list of cus

The Israeli government classified Pegasus, the software by NSO currently in the news, as a weapon, thus restricting its exports. If you look at the list of customers, it quickly becomes clear that they are the same organizations that make the laws.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> If you look at the list of customers, it quickly becomes clear that they are the same organizations that make the laws Israel's unicameral, sovereign, supreme state body, the Knesset [1]? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knesset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knesset
- lupire 5y ago
  no, its customers are foreign governments. its world governments against world people, not nation vs nation.
AtlasBarfed 5y ago
"same organizations that make the laws" More importantly, they are the ones that decide what laws are enforced. What is sad is that in America, the law around surveillance and security is largely a nice marketing campaign. Sure, you have rights that protect you from the government. But practically speaking the government won't enforce them, doesn't stop its employees from abusing them even for personal drama, undermines or stops dead any lawsuits by saying the discovery is impossible due to "national security", or will invent terms like "enemy combatant" and then apply them to its own citizens to bypass even the constitution. It will setup "oversight courts" that rubberstamp everything and have no real power or regulatory function/safeguard. The result of this is that each presidential election is becoming truly dangerous to the opposition. If a McCarthyism movement takes over either party that's in power with the modern surveillance infrastructure, legal "precedents" established by Bush in the war on terror, the confirmation of those powers by the Obama administration holding onto them and continuing funding of infrastructure, undermining of judicial powers, rote acceptance by the people at large, and propaganda outlets available to push messaging, and huge amounts of institutional mores and standards thrown out in the Trump administration, the opposition has real motivation to feel an existential threat.
- kdkdkdkdk 5y ago
  You should realize that in the US, conservatism is the opposition (since conservatives have no media power, no power in academia, no power in HR, and have lost the House, the Presidency, the Senate, and the Joint Chiefs of staff despite electing a president who spent four years trying to reduce the effect of entrenched ideologically driven bureaucrats ("drain the swamp"), he failed to do so, and was destroyed for his effort by the same interests he was elected to oppose) If you don't understand this perspective -- I'm not asking you to agree with it, only to approach it with an open mind -- this viral thread on Twitter explains it better than I can https://mobile.twitter.com/martyrmade/status/1413165168956088321 https://mobile.twitter.com/martyrmade/status/141316516895608...
sorokod 5y ago
From an radio interview with NSO spokesman ( an ex spokesman for the IDF ), all sales require the Israeli MoD approval.
- vmception 5y ago
  Is that more of a notification form or an actual collaborator process with a tribunal?
  - sorokod 5y ago
    In the same interview the spokesman said that some companies choose to avoid it by operating from offices outside of Israel (Bulgaria and Cyprus were mentioned). This seems to imply that the process is burdensome.
    - vmception 5y ago
      Burdensome could be as simple as there being some transparency in a completely simple notification process. Doesn’t tell much. Sometimes I avoid listing directors of a new corporation by forming an LLC and privately filing with the IRS to treat it as a C-Corp Doesn't mean the regulations were tough, but still burdensome in some small way
  - azernik 5y ago
    The Ministry of Defense has a strong inclination to approve any such requests. It's a hassle for the company in question, but the system is set up to encourage inflow of foreign capital to build up and maintain the defense industry.
    - secfirstmd 5y ago
      Also great opportunities for backdoor access...
ashtonkem 5y ago
“State backed terrorist group” is a classification that exists, although it’s highly unlikely to be used here for obvious reasons.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> If you look at the list of customers, it quickly becomes clear that they are the same organizations that make the laws Israel's unicameral, sovereign, supreme state body, the Knesset [1]? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knesset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knesset

lupire 5y ago
no, its customers are foreign governments. its world governments against world people, not nation vs nation.

AtlasBarfed 5y ago

"same organizations that make the laws" More importantly, they are the ones that decide what laws are enforced. What is sad is that in America, the law around surveillance and security is largely a nice marketing campaign. Sure, you have rights that protect you from the government. But practically speaking the government won't enforce them, doesn't stop its employees from abusing them even for personal drama, undermines or stops dead any lawsuits by saying the discovery is impossible due to "national security", or will invent terms like "enemy combatant" and then apply them to its own citizens to bypass even the constitution. It will setup "oversight courts" that rubberstamp everything and have no real power or regulatory function/safeguard. The result of this is that each presidential election is becoming truly dangerous to the opposition. If a McCarthyism movement takes over either party that's in power with the modern surveillance infrastructure, legal "precedents" established by Bush in the war on terror, the confirmation of those powers by the Obama administration holding onto them and continuing funding of infrastructure, undermining of judicial powers, rote acceptance by the people at large, and propaganda outlets available to push messaging, and huge amounts of institutional mores and standards thrown out in the Trump administration, the opposition has real motivation to feel an existential threat.

kdkdkdkdk 5y ago
You should realize that in the US, conservatism is the opposition (since conservatives have no media power, no power in academia, no power in HR, and have lost the House, the Presidency, the Senate, and the Joint Chiefs of staff despite electing a president who spent four years trying to reduce the effect of entrenched ideologically driven bureaucrats ("drain the swamp"), he failed to do so, and was destroyed for his effort by the same interests he was elected to oppose) If you don't understand this perspective -- I'm not asking you to agree with it, only to approach it with an open mind -- this viral thread on Twitter explains it better than I can https://mobile.twitter.com/martyrmade/status/1413165168956088321 https://mobile.twitter.com/martyrmade/status/141316516895608...

sorokod 5y ago

From an radio interview with NSO spokesman ( an ex spokesman for the IDF ), all sales require the Israeli MoD approval.

vmception 5y ago
Is that more of a notification form or an actual collaborator process with a tribunal?
- sorokod 5y ago
  In the same interview the spokesman said that some companies choose to avoid it by operating from offices outside of Israel (Bulgaria and Cyprus were mentioned). This seems to imply that the process is burdensome.
  - vmception 5y ago
    Burdensome could be as simple as there being some transparency in a completely simple notification process. Doesn’t tell much. Sometimes I avoid listing directors of a new corporation by forming an LLC and privately filing with the IRS to treat it as a C-Corp Doesn't mean the regulations were tough, but still burdensome in some small way
- azernik 5y ago
  The Ministry of Defense has a strong inclination to approve any such requests. It's a hassle for the company in question, but the system is set up to encourage inflow of foreign capital to build up and maintain the defense industry.
  - secfirstmd 5y ago
    Also great opportunities for backdoor access...

ashtonkem 5y ago

“State backed terrorist group” is a classification that exists, although it’s highly unlikely to be used here for obvious reasons.