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But the EU didn't join the war.

baby 5y ago
Thanks to France.
DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
The EU doesn't ever go to war. Individual EU countries do. The UK, Spain, Italy and a few other EU countries took part in the illegal invasion of Iraq.
- cbnotfromthere 5y ago
  Why would you call it "illegal"? I'm not trolling, I'm curious.
- Goety 5y ago
  Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (chemical) and they didnt find evidence of nuclear weapons outside the email trail inside their military. It was not illegal
  - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
    An invasion of another country that is neither carried out in self-defense against an imminent attack nor authorized by the UN Security Council is illegal under the UN Charter. This is one of the central principles of the modern international system. > Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (chemical) Even the US government admitted after the war that it could find no evidence of an Iraqi WMD program. All the US found were a few misplaced ancient, rusting artillery shells from the 1980s. These things were unusable, and were more of a danger to the people handling them than anything else. This is not the WMD stockpile the US claimed Saddam had. Nobody would ever have accepted to go to war on the basis of, "We think there are still a few misplaced, unusable artillery shells with degraded chemical agents in Iraq."
    - Goety 5y ago
      HN frowns on political commentary so I'll attempt to be brief The vast majority of the most recent wars have not been UNSC authorized. UN involvement is not necessary for a war to occur nor do they prevent wars or proxy wars between countries on the UNSC. The "modern international system" is an ideal. The US was attacked. >ancient, rusting artillery shells (from the 1980s) 20-30 years old isnt ancient, they were serviceable, and they had chemical weapons in the quantity for the potential of wmds. That is only what they found, and I imagine there were more not found. >Nobody would ever have accepted to go to war There was reasonable evidence they had more that the allied force didn't find. The international community is more to blame for the conditions after involvement than the instigators 10+ years on. A neighbor is beating up another neighbor and both are blaming it on someone else.
      - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
        > The vast majority of the most recent wars have not been UNSC authorized. Unless those wars are fought in imminent self-defense, then they're illegal. The invasion of Iraq was an especially egregious violation of international law for two reasons: 1. The US knew that the UN Security Council would reject a resolution authorizing war, so it decided in the end not to ask. 2. The war had catastrophic consequences for Iraq. It's not every day a country of 20+ million people is invaded and its government overthrown. Hundreds of thousands of people died as a result. A third factor making this war particularly egregious is the deliberate campaign of disinformation that was carried out in order to justify it. > The US was attacked. Not by Iraq. > 20-30 years old isnt ancient, they were serviceable, and they had chemical weapons in the quantity for the potential of wmds. This is how the NY Times described the small number of chemical artillery shells found scattered across Iraq: > Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them. These were the misplaced remnants of the chemical weapons program that Iraq dismantled in the 1990s. > There was reasonable evidence they had more that the allied force didn't find. The US occupied Iraq for nearly a decade. It's simply not credible to claim that there was any sort of sizeable stockpile that the US did not find.
Goety 5y ago
The EU does not have a foreign policy thus will never go to war. France has tried to boost their MIC as an alternative to the US and in doing so actively sought to damage US goals.

baby 5y ago

Thanks to France.

The EU doesn't ever go to war. Individual EU countries do. The UK, Spain, Italy and a few other EU countries took part in the illegal invasion of Iraq.

cbnotfromthere 5y ago
Why would you call it "illegal"? I'm not trolling, I'm curious.
Goety 5y ago
Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (chemical) and they didnt find evidence of nuclear weapons outside the email trail inside their military. It was not illegal
- DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
  An invasion of another country that is neither carried out in self-defense against an imminent attack nor authorized by the UN Security Council is illegal under the UN Charter. This is one of the central principles of the modern international system. > Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (chemical) Even the US government admitted after the war that it could find no evidence of an Iraqi WMD program. All the US found were a few misplaced ancient, rusting artillery shells from the 1980s. These things were unusable, and were more of a danger to the people handling them than anything else. This is not the WMD stockpile the US claimed Saddam had. Nobody would ever have accepted to go to war on the basis of, "We think there are still a few misplaced, unusable artillery shells with degraded chemical agents in Iraq."
  - Goety 5y ago
    HN frowns on political commentary so I'll attempt to be brief The vast majority of the most recent wars have not been UNSC authorized. UN involvement is not necessary for a war to occur nor do they prevent wars or proxy wars between countries on the UNSC. The "modern international system" is an ideal. The US was attacked. >ancient, rusting artillery shells (from the 1980s) 20-30 years old isnt ancient, they were serviceable, and they had chemical weapons in the quantity for the potential of wmds. That is only what they found, and I imagine there were more not found. >Nobody would ever have accepted to go to war There was reasonable evidence they had more that the allied force didn't find. The international community is more to blame for the conditions after involvement than the instigators 10+ years on. A neighbor is beating up another neighbor and both are blaming it on someone else.
    - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
      > The vast majority of the most recent wars have not been UNSC authorized. Unless those wars are fought in imminent self-defense, then they're illegal. The invasion of Iraq was an especially egregious violation of international law for two reasons: 1. The US knew that the UN Security Council would reject a resolution authorizing war, so it decided in the end not to ask. 2. The war had catastrophic consequences for Iraq. It's not every day a country of 20+ million people is invaded and its government overthrown. Hundreds of thousands of people died as a result. A third factor making this war particularly egregious is the deliberate campaign of disinformation that was carried out in order to justify it. > The US was attacked. Not by Iraq. > 20-30 years old isnt ancient, they were serviceable, and they had chemical weapons in the quantity for the potential of wmds. This is how the NY Times described the small number of chemical artillery shells found scattered across Iraq: > Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them. These were the misplaced remnants of the chemical weapons program that Iraq dismantled in the 1990s. > There was reasonable evidence they had more that the allied force didn't find. The US occupied Iraq for nearly a decade. It's simply not credible to claim that there was any sort of sizeable stockpile that the US did not find.

Goety 5y ago

The EU does not have a foreign policy thus will never go to war. France has tried to boost their MIC as an alternative to the US and in doing so actively sought to damage US goals.