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Agree that it should've spent more time on the claim that eliminating gas hookups is a necessary sacrifice. I'm also surprised there was no discussion around th

Agree that it should've spent more time on the claim that eliminating gas hookups is a necessary sacrifice. I'm also surprised there was no discussion around the personal cost impact of switching from gas to electric heat. The emissions from gas heating are drastically higher than electric heating, and eliminating gas heating would absolutely have an impact on emissions. However, gas heating is significantly cheaper than electric heating, and I wish the article had spoken more about how environmental groups plan to deal with lower income residents switching from gas to electric. In Massachusetts, for example, a house that spends $1,200 in a winter on natural gas would spend over $6,000 on electric resistance heat (unless you have a newer electric heat pump, which is much closer to competing with the price of natural gas)

dundarious 5y ago
With a standard heat pump (excluding initial installation costs), costs should be appreciably lower than any other method, except when temperatures approach -20 or so (I may be wrong on that number, but I'm reasonably confident it's in the ballpark). And air conditioners are just reverse heat pumps, the same device can and should operate both as a heater and cooler. I live in an area where those low temperatures occur seasonally, but heat pumps absolutely can improve energy efficiency and reduce carbon emissions, even here, especially if tied to non-air-source heat pumps, or just massively increased renewable energy production (including base load sources like geothermal). The capital/installation costs are the real problem, and it will take some toothy legislation and expenditure to get it done.
- treesknees 5y ago
  You are a bit off on that temperature. Heat pumps are efficient until around 30 degrees F [1]. Once in that range, they start requiring more energy to operate normally. But mostly anything below 30 degrees F needs a secondary heat source such as gas. Where I live in Michigan, I could use a heat pump for some time in the fall and spring, but there's no way it would replace my gas furnace in the winter. I'd be curious to know if the cost of getting a heat pump would be worth it at that point. [1] https://homeinspectioninsider.com/heat-pump-work-subzero-temperatures/ https://homeinspectioninsider.com/heat-pump-work-subzero-tem...
  - dundarious 5y ago
    Our seasons are probably quite similar then. Even with an air-source heat pump, as long as it's smart enough to defrost itself as appropriate, etc., you can definitely get a Coefficient of Performance greater than 1 even at below freezing outdoor temperatures. You could run it the majority of days even in winter, and while your current electricity prices may make it not competitive with current natural gas prices, it would be _efficient_. If natural gas externalities were priced in, it almost certainly would be cheaper to run a heat pump except when COP goes all the way down to 1, where yes, you would need an augmented/alternative heat source -- no denying that. But if you have central air conditioning, which is pretty common in the Midwest, reverse operation is a heat pump. In practice, many A/C systems don't do that, but the capital cost between a central A/C only system and a central A/C + heat pump system is minimal. A/C + heat pump should really be the default, and supplemented or augmented for the few weeks when COP is too low, and for longer while the economics are the way they are. One augmentation is that you can get non-air-source heat pumps. At least for buildings with several units, it _should_ be cost-effective to get a ground source -- just dig below the frost line. That's almost never something you can easily just hire a crew to do, so unfortunately it's not a practical suggestion right now, but if/when that market failure is dealt with, it'll be a good option for many, as you wouldn't need a secondary system. Not trying to convince you to buy a heat pump by the way, the economics of it do matter a lot. I would like to sell people the efficiency argument though.
  - TheCoelacanth 5y ago
    Ground-source heat pumps work in any climate and I believe some newer air-source heat pumps are efficient well below 30F.
908B64B197 5y ago
> In Massachusetts, for example, a house that spends $1,200 in a winter on natural gas would spend over $6,000 on electric resistance heat Just buy it from Quebec at 0.05$/KWh. They have been willing to sell it at that price for decades. Bonus, completely green. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_%E2%80%93_New_England_Transmission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_%E2%80%93_New_England_T...

dundarious 5y ago

With a standard heat pump (excluding initial installation costs), costs should be appreciably lower than any other method, except when temperatures approach -20 or so (I may be wrong on that number, but I'm reasonably confident it's in the ballpark). And air conditioners are just reverse heat pumps, the same device can and should operate both as a heater and cooler. I live in an area where those low temperatures occur seasonally, but heat pumps absolutely can improve energy efficiency and reduce carbon emissions, even here, especially if tied to non-air-source heat pumps, or just massively increased renewable energy production (including base load sources like geothermal). The capital/installation costs are the real problem, and it will take some toothy legislation and expenditure to get it done.

treesknees 5y ago
You are a bit off on that temperature. Heat pumps are efficient until around 30 degrees F [1]. Once in that range, they start requiring more energy to operate normally. But mostly anything below 30 degrees F needs a secondary heat source such as gas. Where I live in Michigan, I could use a heat pump for some time in the fall and spring, but there's no way it would replace my gas furnace in the winter. I'd be curious to know if the cost of getting a heat pump would be worth it at that point. [1] https://homeinspectioninsider.com/heat-pump-work-subzero-temperatures/ https://homeinspectioninsider.com/heat-pump-work-subzero-tem...
- dundarious 5y ago
  Our seasons are probably quite similar then. Even with an air-source heat pump, as long as it's smart enough to defrost itself as appropriate, etc., you can definitely get a Coefficient of Performance greater than 1 even at below freezing outdoor temperatures. You could run it the majority of days even in winter, and while your current electricity prices may make it not competitive with current natural gas prices, it would be _efficient_. If natural gas externalities were priced in, it almost certainly would be cheaper to run a heat pump except when COP goes all the way down to 1, where yes, you would need an augmented/alternative heat source -- no denying that. But if you have central air conditioning, which is pretty common in the Midwest, reverse operation is a heat pump. In practice, many A/C systems don't do that, but the capital cost between a central A/C only system and a central A/C + heat pump system is minimal. A/C + heat pump should really be the default, and supplemented or augmented for the few weeks when COP is too low, and for longer while the economics are the way they are. One augmentation is that you can get non-air-source heat pumps. At least for buildings with several units, it _should_ be cost-effective to get a ground source -- just dig below the frost line. That's almost never something you can easily just hire a crew to do, so unfortunately it's not a practical suggestion right now, but if/when that market failure is dealt with, it'll be a good option for many, as you wouldn't need a secondary system. Not trying to convince you to buy a heat pump by the way, the economics of it do matter a lot. I would like to sell people the efficiency argument though.
- TheCoelacanth 5y ago
  Ground-source heat pumps work in any climate and I believe some newer air-source heat pumps are efficient well below 30F.

908B64B197 5y ago

> In Massachusetts, for example, a house that spends $1,200 in a winter on natural gas would spend over $6,000 on electric resistance heat Just buy it from Quebec at 0.05$/KWh. They have been willing to sell it at that price for decades. Bonus, completely green. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_%E2%80%93_New_England_Transmission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_%E2%80%93_New_England_T...