5 ms·

Disagree. The difference is fundamental and if you don't know it you are going to be stuck with a false understanding of the framework you're working with - and

by typon 5y ago

Disagree. The difference is fundamental and if you don't know it you are going to be stuck with a false understanding of the framework you're working with - and you will likely end up trying to shove bad abstractions into places where they don't belong, resulting in an unmaintainable mess of code. I have seen this happen in a lot of codebases where people fundamentally misunderstand the abstractions they're building on top of.

tyingq 5y ago
I disagree with this. If you believe that one thing "3 tier" means is that the client doesn't interact directly with a database, as the old fat-client -> database model did, then "MVC" was one pattern to accomplish that. So, to me, there is some relationship. Enough of one to have a interview discussion about it. I do agree that they aren't the same thing, but they are pretty clearly related to me. The interview question was “How does this architecture relate to the model-view-controller pattern?”
- raducu 5y ago
  The model's state is not the same thing as the model and even though it's 99% the case, the model in MVC should not be an anemic model.
  - treis 5y ago
    The data layer in a 3 tier architecture isn't necessarily anemic either.
kingdomcome50 5y ago
I find it to be pedantic as well. Sure, all of the code exists in the application layer. But that doesn't really tell you anything about it's relationship to the system as a whole does it? How about we look at vectors of change? Or dependency relationships? You see, in many systems changes[0] to the UI affect changes to the View and changes[1] to the database affect changes to the Model. [0][1] I don't mean to say the UI changes and then the View is updated to match. I mean that stakeholders will have decided that the UI needs to display different information, so the View is updated to accommodate such a change (which can then be passed to the UI). The same story above for the Model/Database relationship.
LanceH 5y ago
> “How does this architecture relate to the model-view-controller pattern?” It's an ambiguous question. One answer is that all the mvc code runs on the application layer. This correct in a nearly tautological way (the code is where the code is). The other answer is how does it relate. The model relates to the database in their three tier example. Indeed, I think this question definitely implies something other than "where does the mvc code exist?" I really don't think his answer is even a pedantic one. It's bending over backwards to read a question in a certain way that his preferred clever answer could be considered correct.

by typon 5y ago

tyingq 5y ago

I disagree with this. If you believe that one thing "3 tier" means is that the client doesn't interact directly with a database, as the old fat-client -> database model did, then "MVC" was one pattern to accomplish that. So, to me, there is some relationship. Enough of one to have a interview discussion about it. I do agree that they aren't the same thing, but they are pretty clearly related to me. The interview question was “How does this architecture relate to the model-view-controller pattern?”

raducu 5y ago
The model's state is not the same thing as the model and even though it's 99% the case, the model in MVC should not be an anemic model.
- treis 5y ago
  The data layer in a 3 tier architecture isn't necessarily anemic either.

kingdomcome50 5y ago

I find it to be pedantic as well. Sure, all of the code exists in the application layer. But that doesn't really tell you anything about it's relationship to the system as a whole does it? How about we look at vectors of change? Or dependency relationships? You see, in many systems changes[0] to the UI affect changes to the View and changes[1] to the database affect changes to the Model. [0][1] I don't mean to say the UI changes and then the View is updated to match. I mean that stakeholders will have decided that the UI needs to display different information, so the View is updated to accommodate such a change (which can then be passed to the UI). The same story above for the Model/Database relationship.

LanceH 5y ago

> “How does this architecture relate to the model-view-controller pattern?” It's an ambiguous question. One answer is that all the mvc code runs on the application layer. This correct in a nearly tautological way (the code is where the code is). The other answer is how does it relate. The model relates to the database in their three tier example. Indeed, I think this question definitely implies something other than "where does the mvc code exist?" I really don't think his answer is even a pedantic one. It's bending over backwards to read a question in a certain way that his preferred clever answer could be considered correct.