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Solarpunk I suspect is more important that we know, because I think rich subcultures are the seeds of massive growth. It's just some funny drawings and interne

Solarpunk I suspect is more important that we know, because I think rich subcultures are the seeds of massive growth. It's just some funny drawings and internet fanfic twigging our sense of novelty on HN now, but when you see it as representing the desires and longings of young people for wilderness, and also know people who left cities in the last 10y, they were the thin edge of the wedge, where post-pandemic, younger people are leaving cities to get on the real estate ladder, with remote work and amazon-style supply chains, and they are family-inclined. It incorporates passive and renewable energy techs, argritech, biotech, cannabis-driven value added production, organic and small scale food production, brewing and distilling, civic minded prepping, local vs. global, etc. I'm interested in when solarpunk blips on the radar because to me it is an aesthetic that represents new growth.

Proven 5y ago
> I'm interested in when solarpunk blips on the radar because to me it is an aesthetic that represents new growth. Don't be confused by that - those are just pretty pictures. See what nynx said below. > because I think rich subcultures are the seeds of massive growth. I that's quite hard to quantify (even the statement itself - "rich subcultures") but it's safe to say that socialist subcultures don't produce much of anything. Look over time, over cultures (and subcultures) - their results have been consistent: misery and even starvation. But they've done really well in terms of controlling their CO2 output, if that's a plus in your book. (How come North Korea never gets any recognition for their fight against climate changes?)
tomc1985 5y ago
First of all, where is the 'punk' aspect? There needs to be an aspect of dystopia to use that word. This sort of organic-growth-everywhere aesthetic is not new, it has been in utopian urban visions for the last 20 or 30 years. Personally I think it started with SimCity 2000 arcologies, but I am probably wrong.
- taylorlapeyre 5y ago
  > There needs to be an aspect of dystopia to use that word I disagree, "punk" is not about dystopia, it's about rebelling against the status-quo. Solarpunk, at its core, is about rejecting our current way of life. That's where the punk comes from.
  - tomc1985 5y ago
    But that rebellion is from a stimulus of some kind. It's a subculture in rebellion from disenfranchisement, war, fascism, or what-have-you. There is anger and lots of other negative emotions. This vision is too bland and perfect to be 'punk'. 'Avant garde' is a better term, since that is used to describe things 'rebelling' against the current aesthetic. 'Solavant Garde' doesn't have the same ring to it though.
    - svantana 5y ago
      The "what-have-you" in this case is the stronghold that capitalism and tragedy-of-the-commons has on urban society and our way of life. Of course, capitalism could produce such neigborhoods, at least on a small scale, simply because affluent folks will pay for it. But the ethos of solarpunk is to create these environments by taking matters into our own hands. Perhaps a decent analogy from the punk world is magazines versus fanzines.
      - tomc1985 5y ago
        I don't know, that argument isn't super compelling. It kind of reminds me of that one marketer at SXSW a while back that wanted the whole conference hall to have "idea sex" as some weird way of framing brainstorming or innovating. Like if yall want to have your utopic fantasies then cool, but if you want to use the punk name there needs to be some raw grit Besides... light has no meaning without dark to contrast it
        svantana 5y ago
        Your idea of what is punk sounds like the mass-marketing by malcolm mclaren. Consider a band like the Buzzcocks, all around friendly looking blokes but they pressed up their own 7" singles, that is the true spirit of punk.
- munificent 5y ago
  > There needs to be an aspect of dystopia to use that word. Hard disagree. I think "punk" has always been about an ethos that individuals are empowered to make change from the bottom up. The punk aesthetic stands between dystopian and utopian. The former says those in power have made everything horrible and there's nothing you can do about it. The latter says those in power make everything amazing so there's nothing you need to do. Punk says those in power made everything horrible but you can make things amazing.
  - nickelcitymario 5y ago
    I've never heard it put that way before, but I love it. Rings 100% true.
  - mym1990 5y ago
    This is a wonderful take on the 3 states!
aaroninsf 5y ago
This comment moved me more than anything I've read on HN in years. The neo-utopian evolution of "dropping off the grid" into "mesh networked sustainable resilient community" is a vision and ethos I can get behind. There has been a lot of loose talk in my circles about Foundation-like ideas for surviving the coming dark years, which I think of as "cultural VPN"... this is a very compelling way to articulate some of those and inspire with it. Going to think about this in the mountains for a few weeks...
gremlinsinc 5y ago
I'm working w/ like-minded people from reddit/HN to build intentional communities (commune, essentially). Start w/ small community, build a glamping sustainable living space... Tent living but not complete roughing it, communal shower, restrooms, kitchen, gardens, laundry, and worker spaces...then little living areas will be setup by families with gates so children don't run off, or get lost. I think mvp needs: Living areas. Land. Storm safety spot. Restrooms. Showers. Food Prep area. Solar/Electricity. Water. Ideally in warmer climes as tents/yurts I think would be hard to keep warm in winter than cool in summer... The idea being that the commune could pool resources and grow/expand and work towards fixing earth by making it fashionable to live in such communities...
- motohagiography 5y ago
  May I recommend some precedents for consideration, some more successful than others. ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadhead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadhead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_(Plymouth_Colony) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_(Plymouth_Colony) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Yod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Yod I'd say, start a band or a music festival, then just keep it going. The other ones, ymmv.
StrictDabbler 5y ago
I'm all for dropping off the grid in a sustainable way. I'm not sure that tree-shaped houses covered in glass are a good way to achieve that. In the future we're facing most of these buildings look like they'll be solar ovens in the summer and painfully cold in the winter.

Proven 5y ago

> I'm interested in when solarpunk blips on the radar because to me it is an aesthetic that represents new growth. Don't be confused by that - those are just pretty pictures. See what nynx said below. > because I think rich subcultures are the seeds of massive growth. I that's quite hard to quantify (even the statement itself - "rich subcultures") but it's safe to say that socialist subcultures don't produce much of anything. Look over time, over cultures (and subcultures) - their results have been consistent: misery and even starvation. But they've done really well in terms of controlling their CO2 output, if that's a plus in your book. (How come North Korea never gets any recognition for their fight against climate changes?)

tomc1985 5y ago

First of all, where is the 'punk' aspect? There needs to be an aspect of dystopia to use that word. This sort of organic-growth-everywhere aesthetic is not new, it has been in utopian urban visions for the last 20 or 30 years. Personally I think it started with SimCity 2000 arcologies, but I am probably wrong.

taylorlapeyre 5y ago
> There needs to be an aspect of dystopia to use that word I disagree, "punk" is not about dystopia, it's about rebelling against the status-quo. Solarpunk, at its core, is about rejecting our current way of life. That's where the punk comes from.
- tomc1985 5y ago
  But that rebellion is from a stimulus of some kind. It's a subculture in rebellion from disenfranchisement, war, fascism, or what-have-you. There is anger and lots of other negative emotions. This vision is too bland and perfect to be 'punk'. 'Avant garde' is a better term, since that is used to describe things 'rebelling' against the current aesthetic. 'Solavant Garde' doesn't have the same ring to it though.
  - svantana 5y ago
    The "what-have-you" in this case is the stronghold that capitalism and tragedy-of-the-commons has on urban society and our way of life. Of course, capitalism could produce such neigborhoods, at least on a small scale, simply because affluent folks will pay for it. But the ethos of solarpunk is to create these environments by taking matters into our own hands. Perhaps a decent analogy from the punk world is magazines versus fanzines.
    - tomc1985 5y ago
      I don't know, that argument isn't super compelling. It kind of reminds me of that one marketer at SXSW a while back that wanted the whole conference hall to have "idea sex" as some weird way of framing brainstorming or innovating. Like if yall want to have your utopic fantasies then cool, but if you want to use the punk name there needs to be some raw grit Besides... light has no meaning without dark to contrast it
      - svantana 5y ago
        Your idea of what is punk sounds like the mass-marketing by malcolm mclaren. Consider a band like the Buzzcocks, all around friendly looking blokes but they pressed up their own 7" singles, that is the true spirit of punk.
munificent 5y ago
> There needs to be an aspect of dystopia to use that word. Hard disagree. I think "punk" has always been about an ethos that individuals are empowered to make change from the bottom up. The punk aesthetic stands between dystopian and utopian. The former says those in power have made everything horrible and there's nothing you can do about it. The latter says those in power make everything amazing so there's nothing you need to do. Punk says those in power made everything horrible but you can make things amazing.
- nickelcitymario 5y ago
  I've never heard it put that way before, but I love it. Rings 100% true.
- mym1990 5y ago
  This is a wonderful take on the 3 states!

aaroninsf 5y ago

This comment moved me more than anything I've read on HN in years. The neo-utopian evolution of "dropping off the grid" into "mesh networked sustainable resilient community" is a vision and ethos I can get behind. There has been a lot of loose talk in my circles about Foundation-like ideas for surviving the coming dark years, which I think of as "cultural VPN"... this is a very compelling way to articulate some of those and inspire with it. Going to think about this in the mountains for a few weeks...

gremlinsinc 5y ago

I'm working w/ like-minded people from reddit/HN to build intentional communities (commune, essentially). Start w/ small community, build a glamping sustainable living space... Tent living but not complete roughing it, communal shower, restrooms, kitchen, gardens, laundry, and worker spaces...then little living areas will be setup by families with gates so children don't run off, or get lost. I think mvp needs: Living areas. Land. Storm safety spot. Restrooms. Showers. Food Prep area. Solar/Electricity. Water. Ideally in warmer climes as tents/yurts I think would be hard to keep warm in winter than cool in summer... The idea being that the commune could pool resources and grow/expand and work towards fixing earth by making it fashionable to live in such communities...

motohagiography 5y ago
May I recommend some precedents for consideration, some more successful than others. ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadhead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadhead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_(Plymouth_Colony) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_(Plymouth_Colony) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Yod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Yod I'd say, start a band or a music festival, then just keep it going. The other ones, ymmv.

StrictDabbler 5y ago

I'm all for dropping off the grid in a sustainable way. I'm not sure that tree-shaped houses covered in glass are a good way to achieve that. In the future we're facing most of these buildings look like they'll be solar ovens in the summer and painfully cold in the winter.