8 ms·

It looks like cyber warfare, as well as espionage, is considered pretty much fair game in geopolitics nowadays. I wonder where the line is drawn that would make

It looks like cyber warfare, as well as espionage, is considered pretty much fair game in geopolitics nowadays. I wonder where the line is drawn that would make it an act of war. In any case, a direct attack from the Chinese government towards it's main trade partners (US, Germany and Japan among them) sounds crazy to me.

DaftDank 5y ago
I don't think it's crazy at all. We (i.e. the US) use our SIGINT abilities to spy on allies all the time, or at least according to numerous books and leaks. With that said, I'm not sure that the US government considers China an ally.
- tasogare 5y ago
  Yes, and that includes stealing trade secrets from European companies, which are nominally US allies.
- pmcollins 5y ago
  espionage != cyber warfare > attack crippled thousands of computers around the world
  - dalbasal 5y ago
    Technology has a tendency of merging realms. Whether you compromise a system to get information or to cripple it is pretty much a detail.
sidlls 5y ago
Why? China wants to build an empire and views the US as an enemy. They will use their military and intelligence forces to achieve that, just like any other country does to achieve their respective goals.
saddata 5y ago
China goes down, so does aapl and tsla and our entire economy. Until the American voter is more powerful that the collected business interests of those mega-corps, China will be our most favored trade partner, even as they commit war crimes against the American people (in theory :)
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  I was pretty cool with modern China until the genocide. I wouldn't have even cared about Hong Kong.
  - xwolfi 5y ago
    I live in Hong Kong, and I don't care either lol. It's not that bad, so far. The genocide, I stay a bit careful, I tended to consider direct immediate murder as genocide to respect a bit the Holocaust, but I would say they'll pay for it a thousandfold. They're building the Xinjiang country like never before by giving them a shared oppressive history. Israel "started" (or at least really took off) like that so... I cannot fathom how they don't see it, and that's the weakness of the party: it's so top down, if a stupid idea comes from high enough, it'll get implemented to the most stupid detail.
  - omgwtfbbq 5y ago
    >I wouldn't have even cared about Hong Kong. Then you are fool
  - ok123456 5y ago
    All the reports about the "genocide" come from one person, Adrian Zenz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz). It's about as credible as reports of Saddam's soldiers ripping babies from incubators. Zenz works for the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and enjoys nothing more than inventing new "victims" to add to the list. It's pretty funny the lengths to which he and the western media that runs with whatever he says are willing to invent things out of whole cloth to support this. Uighurs openly celebrating Eid was used as evidence of attrocities since this couldn't possibly be their own free will, and it was done as propaganda by Beijing!
mjreacher 5y ago
Was there ever a time when espionage and cyber warfare weren't fair game? To me the only difference seems to have been where a nation state did have the capability and where they didn't.

DaftDank 5y ago

I don't think it's crazy at all. We (i.e. the US) use our SIGINT abilities to spy on allies all the time, or at least according to numerous books and leaks. With that said, I'm not sure that the US government considers China an ally.

tasogare 5y ago
Yes, and that includes stealing trade secrets from European companies, which are nominally US allies.
pmcollins 5y ago
espionage != cyber warfare > attack crippled thousands of computers around the world
- dalbasal 5y ago
  Technology has a tendency of merging realms. Whether you compromise a system to get information or to cripple it is pretty much a detail.

sidlls 5y ago

Why? China wants to build an empire and views the US as an enemy. They will use their military and intelligence forces to achieve that, just like any other country does to achieve their respective goals.

saddata 5y ago

China goes down, so does aapl and tsla and our entire economy. Until the American voter is more powerful that the collected business interests of those mega-corps, China will be our most favored trade partner, even as they commit war crimes against the American people (in theory :)

deregulateMed 5y ago
I was pretty cool with modern China until the genocide. I wouldn't have even cared about Hong Kong.
- xwolfi 5y ago
  I live in Hong Kong, and I don't care either lol. It's not that bad, so far. The genocide, I stay a bit careful, I tended to consider direct immediate murder as genocide to respect a bit the Holocaust, but I would say they'll pay for it a thousandfold. They're building the Xinjiang country like never before by giving them a shared oppressive history. Israel "started" (or at least really took off) like that so... I cannot fathom how they don't see it, and that's the weakness of the party: it's so top down, if a stupid idea comes from high enough, it'll get implemented to the most stupid detail.
- omgwtfbbq 5y ago
  >I wouldn't have even cared about Hong Kong. Then you are fool
- ok123456 5y ago
  All the reports about the "genocide" come from one person, Adrian Zenz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz). It's about as credible as reports of Saddam's soldiers ripping babies from incubators. Zenz works for the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and enjoys nothing more than inventing new "victims" to add to the list. It's pretty funny the lengths to which he and the western media that runs with whatever he says are willing to invent things out of whole cloth to support this. Uighurs openly celebrating Eid was used as evidence of attrocities since this couldn't possibly be their own free will, and it was done as propaganda by Beijing!

mjreacher 5y ago

Was there ever a time when espionage and cyber warfare weren't fair game? To me the only difference seems to have been where a nation state did have the capability and where they didn't.