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The reason is because popular media has little incentive to offer examples of stable, healthy relationships. It is much more interesting to show lots of dysfunc

The reason is because popular media has little incentive to offer examples of stable, healthy relationships. It is much more interesting to show lots of dysfunctional characters interacting in strange and unpredictable ways (e.g. 30 Rock, Seinfeld, etc). So, please don't take advice on how to treat women (or anyone, really) from popular media. Because it doesn't purport to teach you that, and it doesn't have any sort of track record here. It specializes in selling you cultural fantasies, actually. As for the last paragraph, well, the difference is summed up in one word: context. Obviously, Watson and her admirer didn't have enough of it. But her admirer also chose a terrible spot and time to proposition her. BTW, using terms like "qualitative" WRT to human behavior is not productive. Humans don't always behave rationally or in their own self-interest, especially in relationships. This is not a bug, generally.

sp332 15y ago
Haha, yeah, I don't mean to pretend that social behavior is an exact science or anything. But broadly, there are some classes of behavior that are acceptable and some that are not. Watson is describing a set of behaviors that are not-OK. The behavior McClelland describes is presented as something that is "acceptable". I don't mean that the guy will get in her pants every time, I mean that you can't fault him for his behavior even if he's turned down. I mean, to me, telling a woman that she interests you and carefully asking her to your place seems like an OK thing. What's unacceptable about that?
- mattgreenrocks 15y ago
  Those particular behaviors were not OK to her in that situation. Had the situation been framed differently, she might not have even mentioned them at all. What if she was in a bar when it happened? What if it wasn't 4 am? The fact of the matter was she may have felt like she couldn't say no to the guy.
  - sp332 15y ago
    Well, there's a big difference between saying "I felt uncomfortable in this particular situation" vs. saying "No guy should ever behave this way." I feel like she was saying the latter, and I've given it a lot of thought and I think that's not fair. Somehow I feel like she should take responsibility for feeling uncomfortable (which is fine, ethically) instead of blaming the guy for making her uncomfortable (which would be bad, ethically). I'll probably just throw out this anecdote entirely and not learn anything from it. Oh well.
    - mattgreenrocks 15y ago
      Maybe. But drawing a conclusion for most females with n = 2 seems...tremulous. And expecting some sort of resolution between two different situations for which you don't have the complete context (nonverbals are key) is also going to be difficult. Now that I think about it, if you're looking for your own reference point, you might as well start with whatever your gut says, and alter from there. You'll learn quickly where you need to be. You're probably going to be too aggressive or too timid, and the only way to learn is to get out there. I was too timid, and some girls cut me some slack...but many did not. But I don't regret being too timid (despite missed opportunities) because, well, that was me, and I had to learn those things. I'm with a wonderful woman now, and am pretty close to where I'd like to be, and where I feel I should be on this scale. Best of luck.

sp332 15y ago

Haha, yeah, I don't mean to pretend that social behavior is an exact science or anything. But broadly, there are some classes of behavior that are acceptable and some that are not. Watson is describing a set of behaviors that are not-OK. The behavior McClelland describes is presented as something that is "acceptable". I don't mean that the guy will get in her pants every time, I mean that you can't fault him for his behavior even if he's turned down. I mean, to me, telling a woman that she interests you and carefully asking her to your place seems like an OK thing. What's unacceptable about that?

mattgreenrocks 15y ago
Those particular behaviors were not OK to her in that situation. Had the situation been framed differently, she might not have even mentioned them at all. What if she was in a bar when it happened? What if it wasn't 4 am? The fact of the matter was she may have felt like she couldn't say no to the guy.
- sp332 15y ago
  Well, there's a big difference between saying "I felt uncomfortable in this particular situation" vs. saying "No guy should ever behave this way." I feel like she was saying the latter, and I've given it a lot of thought and I think that's not fair. Somehow I feel like she should take responsibility for feeling uncomfortable (which is fine, ethically) instead of blaming the guy for making her uncomfortable (which would be bad, ethically). I'll probably just throw out this anecdote entirely and not learn anything from it. Oh well.
  - mattgreenrocks 15y ago
    Maybe. But drawing a conclusion for most females with n = 2 seems...tremulous. And expecting some sort of resolution between two different situations for which you don't have the complete context (nonverbals are key) is also going to be difficult. Now that I think about it, if you're looking for your own reference point, you might as well start with whatever your gut says, and alter from there. You'll learn quickly where you need to be. You're probably going to be too aggressive or too timid, and the only way to learn is to get out there. I was too timid, and some girls cut me some slack...but many did not. But I don't regret being too timid (despite missed opportunities) because, well, that was me, and I had to learn those things. I'm with a wonderful woman now, and am pretty close to where I'd like to be, and where I feel I should be on this scale. Best of luck.