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In other words, blackmail. The whole thing is based on extremely dubious and misleading interpretations of the various laws involved, and designed to instill f

In other words, blackmail. The whole thing is based on extremely dubious and misleading interpretations of the various laws involved, and designed to instill fear in the developer in question.

coldtea 5y ago
Well, the part where the other developer violated the license seems clear enough. Blackmail is a valid explanation if you don't have another more powerful recourse. But they do, they can just report them to the law. Is it intended as a threat then? Perhaps. But a threat is still much better than the nuclear option of reporting him. What else could they do between (a) asking him (which they seem to have done already), (b) threatening him with reporting him, and (c) reporting him? Bend over and take it?
- angry_octet 5y ago
  I'm seriously disappointed by seeing this is your take. They are threatening to have him arrested by Chinese torturers! Their conduct is beyond the pale.
  - coldtea 5y ago
    Did you miss the part where they haven't reported him, while they very well could have done it, and it's within their legal rights? Or that their reporting would be to his country of residence, not to the Chinese, and that the "arrested by Chinese" part is not something they would do, but something his host country might opt to do (extradite him), if he is found to violate their law.
    - joepie91_ 5y ago
      "We have the choice of destroying your life and have chosen to only do so if you don't do what we want" is not a virtue, it's blackmail. They could also choose to just, y'know, not report them to anything full stop, unconditionally, like any reasonable empathic human would.
    - angry_octet 5y ago
      "It's within my rights to inform on you, with the goal of sending you to a prison as a political prisoner, where you will be tortured. As this is legal, it must be acceptable conduct."
    - runnerup 5y ago
      Legally what you describe is the crime of “blackmail”. You may need to review the legal definition of blackmail. It’s perfectly legal to report someone’s crime. It’s illegal to say/imply “Hey either you do x/y/x or else I will report this crime you did. But if you do that for me then I won’t have to report your crime.” That’s blackmail and it’s a felony. Whether the things that Daniel Ray said specifically is blackmail or not, obviously I’d need a lawyer or court to tell me. But it’s not a good look at all.
- mcguire 5y ago
  "Well, the part where the other developer violated the license seems clear enough." Are you sure? This seems to be the same category of software as youtube-dl.
- NobodyNada 5y ago
  > Blackmail is a valid explanation if you don't have another more powerful recourse. But they do, they can just report them to the law. As other commenters have pointed out on GitHub, Muse does not appear to have a legal leg to stand on. If they did, they would have simply sent a DMCA takedown notice a long time ago — but that would require Muse to swear under penalty of perjury that they believe the content is really infringing, and they must know it isn’t. So instead they’re making scary threats and hoping to spook the developer into taking down the repository himself. As you put it, they “don't have another more powerful recourse” and so they’re making threats that they can’t actually follow through on.
- MikeDelta 5y ago
  Blackmail or taking the law in your own hands is not ok, we have the legal system for that.

In other words, blackmail. The whole thing is based on extremely dubious and misleading interpretations of the various laws involved, and designed to instill fear in the developer in question.

coldtea 5y ago

Well, the part where the other developer violated the license seems clear enough. Blackmail is a valid explanation if you don't have another more powerful recourse. But they do, they can just report them to the law. Is it intended as a threat then? Perhaps. But a threat is still much better than the nuclear option of reporting him. What else could they do between (a) asking him (which they seem to have done already), (b) threatening him with reporting him, and (c) reporting him? Bend over and take it?

angry_octet 5y ago
I'm seriously disappointed by seeing this is your take. They are threatening to have him arrested by Chinese torturers! Their conduct is beyond the pale.
- coldtea 5y ago
  Did you miss the part where they haven't reported him, while they very well could have done it, and it's within their legal rights? Or that their reporting would be to his country of residence, not to the Chinese, and that the "arrested by Chinese" part is not something they would do, but something his host country might opt to do (extradite him), if he is found to violate their law.
  - joepie91_ 5y ago
    "We have the choice of destroying your life and have chosen to only do so if you don't do what we want" is not a virtue, it's blackmail. They could also choose to just, y'know, not report them to anything full stop, unconditionally, like any reasonable empathic human would.
  - angry_octet 5y ago
    "It's within my rights to inform on you, with the goal of sending you to a prison as a political prisoner, where you will be tortured. As this is legal, it must be acceptable conduct."
  - runnerup 5y ago
    Legally what you describe is the crime of “blackmail”. You may need to review the legal definition of blackmail. It’s perfectly legal to report someone’s crime. It’s illegal to say/imply “Hey either you do x/y/x or else I will report this crime you did. But if you do that for me then I won’t have to report your crime.” That’s blackmail and it’s a felony. Whether the things that Daniel Ray said specifically is blackmail or not, obviously I’d need a lawyer or court to tell me. But it’s not a good look at all.
mcguire 5y ago
"Well, the part where the other developer violated the license seems clear enough." Are you sure? This seems to be the same category of software as youtube-dl.
NobodyNada 5y ago
> Blackmail is a valid explanation if you don't have another more powerful recourse. But they do, they can just report them to the law. As other commenters have pointed out on GitHub, Muse does not appear to have a legal leg to stand on. If they did, they would have simply sent a DMCA takedown notice a long time ago — but that would require Muse to swear under penalty of perjury that they believe the content is really infringing, and they must know it isn’t. So instead they’re making scary threats and hoping to spook the developer into taking down the repository himself. As you put it, they “don't have another more powerful recourse” and so they’re making threats that they can’t actually follow through on.
MikeDelta 5y ago
Blackmail or taking the law in your own hands is not ok, we have the legal system for that.