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> Activation lock does NOT block the second-hand trade of non-stolen devices. No, it just makes it harder and feeds a gray market of phone unlocking. You appea
by southerntofu 5y ago
> Activation lock does NOT block the second-hand trade of non-stolen devices.
No, it just makes it harder and feeds a gray market of phone unlocking. You appear to be a person who mostly deals with first-hand hardware in a rich western country, where there are Apple stores nearby.
Most people who sell or give away their devices DO NOT change/reset passphrases. This is true for all devices, and i've often had to recontact sellers in order to obtain such credentials. Sometimes, such communication is impossible, or the owner has forgotten the passphrase after leaving the device for years in a cupboard.
With usual computers, i can usually do without even the BIOS password and just boot on USB to setup a new system. Or at least i can take the hard drive into another computer, set it up and move it back in order to boot. With Apple/Samsung devices i end up piling them in my own cupboard and/or throwing them away, which is OK because i didn't pay for them.
It's infuriating when friends/neighbors came to me with devices they acquired in good faith for a reasonable price (<= 100€ for second-hand phone), and can't get it to boot. They then have to go to a phone store and pay 30-50€ more to get the phone (whether Apple or Samsung) unlocked, through a shady mafia (there's articles online about that). All this because of these evil companies.
> We wouldn't want car thieves (ahem, sorry, "second-hand owners") to be inconvenienced either. (...) While you're at it, perhaps we should require all security safes to be openable with a paperclip
You're making a bad faith argument here. Inconvenience is not the problem. Having to follow procedures to reset a device, changing a car security system because you were sold the car without the keys, or changing a safe lock are all possible though inconvenient. Apple/Samsung make it deliberately IMPOSSIBLE to reuse their device without going through shady third parties.
> You are essentially advocating in favour of crime.
In some circumstances, yes. I'm generally advocating in favor of burning down these Silicon Valley companies destroying our lives and our planet and making billions of the backs of workers. However, in this case i'm merely advocating for the right to repair and the second-hand market, both of which are perfectly legal occupations, at least in my country of residence (France).
I'd like to emphasize that through locking devices to a single "owner", you are essentially advocating in favor of crime, by creating incentives for corruption within iCloud services, while at the same time placing the burden of POTENTIAL theft (which i suspect is just a tiny portion of second-hand devices, though making statistics would be complex as we're talking illegal stuff here) on the good-faith customer who bought the phone on craigslist (or local equivalent) or a second-hand market without knowing it was locked. Yes, most people are that gullible. I don't think placing the cost of unlocking on second-hand owners is fair in any way, or creating any kind of sane incentives on a global scale.
And yes, it's a complete ecological disaster: ask me, i have a drawer full of apple devices (donated to me over the years) to which i don't have passwords. They are essentially highly-polluting paperweights, though i keep hoping they can at least come in handy one day when someone needs a spare part. Speaking of which, locking devices does not prevent scavenging for parts and therefore does not disable theft incentives, contrary to your argument.
- simondotau 5y ago> I don't think placing the cost of unlocking on second-hand owners is fair in any way > It's infuriating when friends/neighbors came to me with devices they acquired in good faith If you don’t have the activation lock removed, you’re not the second-hand owner, you’re more than likely in possession of stolen property which has been dumped in your hands. A stolen device doesn’t become ethically cleansed because someone bought it off the criminal “in good faith.” It’s still stolen goods. All serious recycling services pay money for phones. Every single one I know of pays almost nothing if the device is activation locked, so it’s in the interest of the seller to deactivate it.
- nelgaard 5y agoI have never bought a new laptop (desktops are another thing) for more than 30 years now. I just get old ones. Usually from clients or friends at bigger companies, that are replacing them at a Windows upgrade. Then I wipe the disks (even if I would hope they are already wiped) and install Linux. Works for me. And I have lost a few to theft, heavy rain, drops, bumpy bus rides, wine spilling, etc. So I was happy it was not new macbooks. But I doubt that I could have gotten a firmware password for most of them. They would just have been thrown in the garbage. I also got a couple of phones that could be used for testing web-apps. The last one was locked, and it would be pointless to try to get it unlocked. Maybe the BIOS should give you full ownership if it can check that the device is not reported missing after one week. But I guess that would give robbers a motive to kill the owners. Maybe devices should just unlock when they 5 years old.
- southerntofu 5y ago> But I doubt that I could have gotten a firmware password for most of them. They would just have been thrown in the garbage. Exactly! Thanks for confirming my personal experiences. I almost thought i was going crazy with all those Silicon Valley fanboys telling me my personal experience does not exist in the real world :) > Maybe the BIOS should give you full ownership if it can check that the device is not reported missing after one week. But I guess that would give robbers a motive to kill the owners. I don't think most people (even most thieves) would kill for a few hundred euros. But hey it's just my personal bet i don't have actual statistics :) > Maybe devices should just unlock when they 5 years old. Yeah maybe auto-timeout of BIOS lock could be nice to enforce for reusability of hardware. Something like you have to re-enable BIOS hardware (such as iCloud lock) every year or let it will auto-expire. This way the Apple cult can be happy with their brand new iCloud-locked iPhone which costs more than a second-hand car, while older devices could be reused instead of being thrown away or piled in a drawer.