3 ms·

How's that Apple's fault, though?

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
Apple built a system that makes discarded devices unusable. Whether the trade-off is worthwhile is debatable, but the environmental cost is real.
- simondotau 5y ago
  The environmental cost is real either way. Without activation lock, more phones get stolen, then more phones are manufactured and sold to replace them. There are already plenty of perfectly good phones in the world; putting stolen iPhone 12 Pro devices into the second hand market lowers the value of existing devices.
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    > Without activation lock, more phones get stolen, then more phones are manufactured and sold to replace them Source? > putting stolen iPhone 12 Pro devices into the second hand market lowers the value of existing devices Funny argument. So would you be OK to remove iCloud lock from all devices except the newer line? That would be fine by my book for legit second-hand purposes. (Though i'm pretty sure Apple and its fanboys would be still pretty hostile to it)
    - simondotau 5y ago
      > Source? I don’t need one, it’s entirely deductive reasoning. Do you dispute that people generally acquire a replacement phone if theirs is stolen? Do you dispute that phones have the same environmental footprint whether they’re an upgrade or a replacement for a stolen device? As for your last paragraph, I have no idea what you’re talking about. That doesn’t sound like a response to what I said. I don’t want activation lock removed from any device.
      - southerntofu 5y ago
        > Do you dispute that people generally acquire a replacement phone if theirs is stolen? Do you dispute that phones have the same environmental footprint whether they’re an upgrade or a replacement for a stolen device? No, i dispute that locking phones reduces theft. Because as i've explained, unlocking phones is perfectly possible and there's an entire gray-market industry dedicated to that. But yes i dispute your last statement, because it is true on an individual level but false on a collective level. If you get your phone stolen, you will buy a new one, but on a global scale, stolen goods are still circulating and therefore do not lead to increase in production of devices, and therefore has ZERO environmental impact. > I don’t want activation lock removed from any device. Then you truly are an enemy of the planet and the people, because you wish to keep your owner's privileges just for yourself and don't care if you have to set the entire planet on fire and ruin lives for that. I hope in a few decades, when we are struggling for basic survival (eg. finding drinkable water that has not been polluted by silicon/lithium/oil refinement), you remember that it is your choices and your acceptance of this fucked-up society that took us there.
- suction 5y ago
  Wrong - Apple built a system where their devices need to be taken out of the cloud before selling them on. Which takes about three taps and less than minute, so I'm asking you again, why blame Apple here?
southerntofu 5y ago
Preventing data theft through wiping the entire device is perfectly legit in case of passphrase recovery. Simply preventing passphrase recovery apart from a trusted centralized third party (Apple) is wrong on many levels: it's an ecological disaster, it's a disappointment to good-faith second-hand buyers, it's incentives for corruption within Apple and a shady iCloud unlocker business... In essence, it's fundamentally incompatible with right to repair and fuels an Apple-insider mafia that honest people have to bribe in order to use a device. That's pretty much Apple's fault no doubt.
- suction 5y ago
  You do understand that second-hand Apple devices are being sold and bought every day? Only those where the previous owner was too blasé to turn off the cloud lock can't be sold on. Which is not Apple's fault.
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    Wow, are we recursing? Yes of course it's Apple's fault. Apple could allow to remove the phone locking mechanism on the condition to fully erase data on the phone. That would make their phones suitable for second-hand market and as a consequence more eco-friendly. But they have decided to go against right to repair and against basic principles of ecology. Just as they have, in other fields, decided to go against basic principles of interoperability (Micro-USB/USB-C charger? Jack plug? Standard screws? who needs that, right?). So yes Apple is harming users and is harming the environment. No amount of greenwashing can undo that.
    - suction 5y ago
      Their phones are fully suitable for 2nd hand markets as-is. I sense a bit of a an Anti-Apple dogma here, so please excuse me not coming back to this.

Apple built a system that makes discarded devices unusable. Whether the trade-off is worthwhile is debatable, but the environmental cost is real.

simondotau 5y ago
The environmental cost is real either way. Without activation lock, more phones get stolen, then more phones are manufactured and sold to replace them. There are already plenty of perfectly good phones in the world; putting stolen iPhone 12 Pro devices into the second hand market lowers the value of existing devices.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > Without activation lock, more phones get stolen, then more phones are manufactured and sold to replace them Source? > putting stolen iPhone 12 Pro devices into the second hand market lowers the value of existing devices Funny argument. So would you be OK to remove iCloud lock from all devices except the newer line? That would be fine by my book for legit second-hand purposes. (Though i'm pretty sure Apple and its fanboys would be still pretty hostile to it)
  - simondotau 5y ago
    > Source? I don’t need one, it’s entirely deductive reasoning. Do you dispute that people generally acquire a replacement phone if theirs is stolen? Do you dispute that phones have the same environmental footprint whether they’re an upgrade or a replacement for a stolen device? As for your last paragraph, I have no idea what you’re talking about. That doesn’t sound like a response to what I said. I don’t want activation lock removed from any device.
    - southerntofu 5y ago
      > Do you dispute that people generally acquire a replacement phone if theirs is stolen? Do you dispute that phones have the same environmental footprint whether they’re an upgrade or a replacement for a stolen device? No, i dispute that locking phones reduces theft. Because as i've explained, unlocking phones is perfectly possible and there's an entire gray-market industry dedicated to that. But yes i dispute your last statement, because it is true on an individual level but false on a collective level. If you get your phone stolen, you will buy a new one, but on a global scale, stolen goods are still circulating and therefore do not lead to increase in production of devices, and therefore has ZERO environmental impact. > I don’t want activation lock removed from any device. Then you truly are an enemy of the planet and the people, because you wish to keep your owner's privileges just for yourself and don't care if you have to set the entire planet on fire and ruin lives for that. I hope in a few decades, when we are struggling for basic survival (eg. finding drinkable water that has not been polluted by silicon/lithium/oil refinement), you remember that it is your choices and your acceptance of this fucked-up society that took us there.
suction 5y ago
Wrong - Apple built a system where their devices need to be taken out of the cloud before selling them on. Which takes about three taps and less than minute, so I'm asking you again, why blame Apple here?

southerntofu 5y ago

Preventing data theft through wiping the entire device is perfectly legit in case of passphrase recovery. Simply preventing passphrase recovery apart from a trusted centralized third party (Apple) is wrong on many levels: it's an ecological disaster, it's a disappointment to good-faith second-hand buyers, it's incentives for corruption within Apple and a shady iCloud unlocker business... In essence, it's fundamentally incompatible with right to repair and fuels an Apple-insider mafia that honest people have to bribe in order to use a device. That's pretty much Apple's fault no doubt.

suction 5y ago
You do understand that second-hand Apple devices are being sold and bought every day? Only those where the previous owner was too blasé to turn off the cloud lock can't be sold on. Which is not Apple's fault.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  Wow, are we recursing? Yes of course it's Apple's fault. Apple could allow to remove the phone locking mechanism on the condition to fully erase data on the phone. That would make their phones suitable for second-hand market and as a consequence more eco-friendly. But they have decided to go against right to repair and against basic principles of ecology. Just as they have, in other fields, decided to go against basic principles of interoperability (Micro-USB/USB-C charger? Jack plug? Standard screws? who needs that, right?). So yes Apple is harming users and is harming the environment. No amount of greenwashing can undo that.
  - suction 5y ago
    Their phones are fully suitable for 2nd hand markets as-is. I sense a bit of a an Anti-Apple dogma here, so please excuse me not coming back to this.