5 ms·

>Facebook should be forced I would consider this sentiment more absurd and dystopian than Facebook freely removing content from its own website.

lmm 5y ago
Why? Facebook is not a person, it should exist solely at our discretion. "People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people" applies even more strongly to corporations than to governments.
- Nevermark 5y ago
  Corporations are just citizens cooperating in a venture. That shouldn't result in them losing rights simply because they are incorporated. The law should be applied to relevant details of a situation, not something arbitrary like incorporation unless the issue is specific to the details of incorporation.
  - lmm 5y ago
    > Corporations are just citizens cooperating in a venture. No they're not. They come with an extraordinary privilege of limited liability, which is meant to be paired with a corresponding responsibility to create a social benefit.
    - Nevermark 5y ago
      You are right. On a different tack, if governments legislate some kinds of moderation for corporations, then the corporations would become an extension of the government and that would become government censorship in practice. Not good. If governments legislate no moderation for corporations, then corporations would lose the ability to encourage different kinds of communication with moderation. I don't see either case as healthy for freedom, capitalism, or individuals in the end. Legislating that moderation rules must be made public, and moderation actions logged so the public could review a corporations compliance with its own chosen rules, seems reasonable to me. It would avoid deceptive moderation, which to me is a problem similar to other kinds of fraud that are outlawed.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Corporations are just citizens cooperating in a venture. No, that's partnerships or unincorporated associations (well, “people”, not necessarily “citizens”). Corporations are distinct legal entities created by the power of the state and im ued with state-issued charters whose investors are granted the immense legal privilege of limited liability. > That shouldn't result in them losing rights simply because they are incorporated. The exercise of state power involved in incorporation and the privileges at public expense it grants should absolutely be tied to restrictions and conditions that ensure that a sufficient public benefit to warrant the cost is served and that the exercise of state power involved in the creation, existence, and operation of the corporation is consistent with the restrictions otherwise applicable to state power.
int_19h 5y ago
Do you consider the already-existing (in other fields) common carrier arrangement to be absurd and dystopian?
PontifexMinimus 5y ago
All governments apply rules to corporations forcing them to do or not do things. Are you in principle against that?
- SantalBlush 5y ago
  Not at all. I am against arbitrarily forcing them to do or not do things, which is what some people are calling for here. I think Facebook is a terrible site, and I don't even know why anyone would want to keep using it tbh. edit: typo

lmm 5y ago

Why? Facebook is not a person, it should exist solely at our discretion. "People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people" applies even more strongly to corporations than to governments.

Nevermark 5y ago
Corporations are just citizens cooperating in a venture. That shouldn't result in them losing rights simply because they are incorporated. The law should be applied to relevant details of a situation, not something arbitrary like incorporation unless the issue is specific to the details of incorporation.
- lmm 5y ago
  > Corporations are just citizens cooperating in a venture. No they're not. They come with an extraordinary privilege of limited liability, which is meant to be paired with a corresponding responsibility to create a social benefit.
  - Nevermark 5y ago
    You are right. On a different tack, if governments legislate some kinds of moderation for corporations, then the corporations would become an extension of the government and that would become government censorship in practice. Not good. If governments legislate no moderation for corporations, then corporations would lose the ability to encourage different kinds of communication with moderation. I don't see either case as healthy for freedom, capitalism, or individuals in the end. Legislating that moderation rules must be made public, and moderation actions logged so the public could review a corporations compliance with its own chosen rules, seems reasonable to me. It would avoid deceptive moderation, which to me is a problem similar to other kinds of fraud that are outlawed.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Corporations are just citizens cooperating in a venture. No, that's partnerships or unincorporated associations (well, “people”, not necessarily “citizens”). Corporations are distinct legal entities created by the power of the state and im ued with state-issued charters whose investors are granted the immense legal privilege of limited liability. > That shouldn't result in them losing rights simply because they are incorporated. The exercise of state power involved in incorporation and the privileges at public expense it grants should absolutely be tied to restrictions and conditions that ensure that a sufficient public benefit to warrant the cost is served and that the exercise of state power involved in the creation, existence, and operation of the corporation is consistent with the restrictions otherwise applicable to state power.

int_19h 5y ago

Do you consider the already-existing (in other fields) common carrier arrangement to be absurd and dystopian?

PontifexMinimus 5y ago

All governments apply rules to corporations forcing them to do or not do things. Are you in principle against that?

SantalBlush 5y ago
Not at all. I am against arbitrarily forcing them to do or not do things, which is what some people are calling for here. I think Facebook is a terrible site, and I don't even know why anyone would want to keep using it tbh. edit: typo