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Russia has been mentioned 7 times in this discussion now, every time by you. I don't have any stake in this fight; I don't use or recommend any of these applic

Russia has been mentioned 7 times in this discussion now, every time by you. I don't have any stake in this fight; I don't use or recommend any of these applications. But you do seem to have a bone to pick.

tester756 5y ago
In Russia it's "legal" to hack other countries or their citizens, so it's not weird take.
- dogorman 5y ago
  The weird part is being the only guy bringing it up half a dozen times in one conversation.
- hda2 5y ago
  It's also "legal" to do so in other countries. I think it's better to focus on Telegram's open specification and implementation instead of bashing it because the developers happen to be born somewhere you don't like.
maqp 5y ago
With Russia? No it's just useful to remember Durov's background, and since he's Russian, there aren't many countries he'd be secretly collaborating with. When the vendor is intentionally collecting and defending the collection of such vast amounts of data, you have to ask, who might benefit if Telegram was a front. I'm not specifically against Russia or US, I'm just someone who'd prefer people to have the right to their privacy. Mass surveillance isn't healthy for society, and Telegram is enabling it with their silo of user data. So ultimately, it doesn't matter if Durov is directly playing for any big party, the problem is there's not enough tech in place to prove he isn't and when that's the case, Telegram servers and the user data that sits there, is a free for all. A server in UK is not legally, (or technically) protected from the NSA, CCA, Fancy Bear, Unit 8200, Iranian Cyber Army etc. The only bone to pick here is any vendor who'd claim to be fighting for privacy when their privacy-by-design architecture is indistinguishable from honey pots and surveillance capitalistic companies.
- Dah00n 5y ago
  >A server in UK is not legally, (or technically) protected <snip> a free for all So exactly like servers from Facebook, Signal, Google, German police, etc. anywhere on earth. Just ask NSA (or Snowden). This is the whole China debate over again: Who would you rather that have access to all your old data the day something you did years ago suddenly become a danger to you because some fascist person became a dictator? China, who likely cannot touch you if you are outside Mainland China or the US, who will happily kidnap you from almost any place on earth if they dislike you enough (often with local help)? I'd rather put my eggs in a Chinese (or Russian) basket than a US/UK one if I had to pick only between those options.
  - maqp 5y ago
    What are you talking about :D This isn't about who's basket you'd dump your eggs into. The point is, Telegram isn't deploying end-to-end encryption, therefore there is a basket in the first place. Had they used E2EE, it wouldn't matter where the server is located, because the server never ever built a massive trove of messages, regardless of where the server is physically located. I'm equally against everyone reading my private messages. I don't want to have to choose a country who has my messages, I choose my computer, and the computer of my peer, where ever they are.
- int_19h 5y ago
  Durov's background is that he left Russia for political reasons, which include, among other things, several confrontations with the government over stuff like handing users' data for prosecution.

tester756 5y ago

In Russia it's "legal" to hack other countries or their citizens, so it's not weird take.

dogorman 5y ago
The weird part is being the only guy bringing it up half a dozen times in one conversation.
hda2 5y ago
It's also "legal" to do so in other countries. I think it's better to focus on Telegram's open specification and implementation instead of bashing it because the developers happen to be born somewhere you don't like.

maqp 5y ago

With Russia? No it's just useful to remember Durov's background, and since he's Russian, there aren't many countries he'd be secretly collaborating with. When the vendor is intentionally collecting and defending the collection of such vast amounts of data, you have to ask, who might benefit if Telegram was a front. I'm not specifically against Russia or US, I'm just someone who'd prefer people to have the right to their privacy. Mass surveillance isn't healthy for society, and Telegram is enabling it with their silo of user data. So ultimately, it doesn't matter if Durov is directly playing for any big party, the problem is there's not enough tech in place to prove he isn't and when that's the case, Telegram servers and the user data that sits there, is a free for all. A server in UK is not legally, (or technically) protected from the NSA, CCA, Fancy Bear, Unit 8200, Iranian Cyber Army etc. The only bone to pick here is any vendor who'd claim to be fighting for privacy when their privacy-by-design architecture is indistinguishable from honey pots and surveillance capitalistic companies.

Dah00n 5y ago
>A server in UK is not legally, (or technically) protected <snip> a free for all So exactly like servers from Facebook, Signal, Google, German police, etc. anywhere on earth. Just ask NSA (or Snowden). This is the whole China debate over again: Who would you rather that have access to all your old data the day something you did years ago suddenly become a danger to you because some fascist person became a dictator? China, who likely cannot touch you if you are outside Mainland China or the US, who will happily kidnap you from almost any place on earth if they dislike you enough (often with local help)? I'd rather put my eggs in a Chinese (or Russian) basket than a US/UK one if I had to pick only between those options.
- maqp 5y ago
  What are you talking about :D This isn't about who's basket you'd dump your eggs into. The point is, Telegram isn't deploying end-to-end encryption, therefore there is a basket in the first place. Had they used E2EE, it wouldn't matter where the server is located, because the server never ever built a massive trove of messages, regardless of where the server is physically located. I'm equally against everyone reading my private messages. I don't want to have to choose a country who has my messages, I choose my computer, and the computer of my peer, where ever they are.
int_19h 5y ago
Durov's background is that he left Russia for political reasons, which include, among other things, several confrontations with the government over stuff like handing users' data for prosecution.