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You might be happy to hear about Linux running on M1 Macs already then (and Windows ARM version will run as soon as Microsoft gets around to it, I expect). htt

You might be happy to hear about Linux running on M1 Macs already then (and Windows ARM version will run as soon as Microsoft gets around to it, I expect). https://asahilinux.org/about/ https://asahilinux.org/about/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/28/linux-kernel-5-13-officially-launches-with-support-for-m1-macs/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/28/linux-kernel-5-13-officially-...

rvz 5y ago
That's great news but how do users go about 'installing it' right now? I think the comments in 9to5mac are just as bewildered as I and many users are. By the time a guide is written, they would have moved on to getting an M1X or M2 Macbook, still waiting. It's only got kernel support, but is actually still not 'user ready'. Could take months for that to happen.
- deaddodo 5y ago
  You don't. Asahi is far away from usable. They've got initial kernel support in, which allows it to boot. However no drivers have been written yet, there's nothing ready in the userspace and it definitely doesn't have an installer. * Not decrying Asahi, they've done a lot of work and continue to do so. But it's best not to misrepresent the project's status.
  - rvz 5y ago
    > They've got initial kernel support in, which allows it to boot. However no drivers have been written yet, there's nothing ready in the userspace and it definitely doesn't have an installer. Exactly my point as I have already said. We know it is not user ready but the parent comment is making as if it is already running on M1 Macs; which is hardly true. To debunk the M1 Linux hype squad again, it does not work to the point of it being usable and will take months to get it 'user ready'.
  - marcan_42 5y ago
    Your description isn't quite accurate either. IRQ, DART drivers have been written; I2C, UART, NVMe, USB, PCI, USB-C/PD, Wi-Fi drivers have been adapted. I'm currently working on reverse engineering the display controller and will move onto the GPU after that. Alyssa has been working on the GPU userspace stack and the GLES2 tests are 80% or so passing, running mesa on macOS (open source userspace, Apple's kernel driver). I've spent a lot of time brainstorming the installer and researching the approach, and we already have manual install guide. I'll work on that as soon as the GPU kernel stuff is on track. As for userspace, there's nothing to be done for basic support; you can install any distro userspace you like. The main things there are the Mesa driver and, eventually, helpers for stuff like the Touch Bar (obviously we'll get the non-TB Macs running nicely earlier, TB is an annoying complication). Things are in various stages of development and review, and yes, only IRQ, UART and basic bring-up is upstreamed, but I think you'll find things get to end-user usability a lot faster than you might think.
- rdaystrom 5y ago
  I'm hoping it will be 'user ready' by the time the M5 multitronic Macbook comes out. That will be the ultimate computer.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    Until the M7 ... or M9 ... or some not-so-power-savvy-but-beast of a Ryzen shows up ... or ....
    - rdaystrom 5y ago
      Hopefully Captain Kirk doesn't end up destroying the M7 or M9. That would be annoying.
    - brokenmachine 5y ago
      Direct anal interface to Apple HQ. Can't wait.
- SheinhardtWigCo 5y ago
  It'll never be "user ready". It'll be like a Hackintosh: a quaint toy for hobbyists that is constantly broken by Apple's new stuff and therefore unlivable as a daily driver. Only the most fanatical folks would be willing to live on a flavor of Linux that can only survive hardware revisions through extensive reverse engineering efforts. I say this despite having a huge amount of respect for the developers.
  - marcan_42 5y ago
    My job description is literally to prove you wrong :-)
deaddodo 5y ago
Asahi Linux hardly runs on M1. They're definitely spearheading research into the hardware and have done a ton. But the project is well into it's infancy. And it's doubtful Microsoft would ever go through the same effort to port Windows on ARM to the M1, instead probably relying on Apple's virtualization framework to allow it to run.
- aeontech 5y ago
  Sure, it doesn't happen overnight. My point was to point out to parent that Apple is not explicitly trying to block other OS's from booting, and alternatives will become available as the systems mature.
  - deaddodo 5y ago
    You said “already” for Linux and “soon” for Windows. Neither (well one definitely the other speculatively) of which are true.
    - aeontech 5y ago
      You're right, I hadn't checked the site recently and I thought the project were further along - I should've said "booting already" to be conservative.
  - sharikous 5y ago
    It is implicitly so. As far as I know you need to reverse engineer the whole process and disguise the kernel you want to run as a macOS Mach kernel. They keep a finger on the trigger by having an encrypted Secure Boot system, too. Not to mention how much the system is locked in (soldered SSD necessary for booting, Internet connection mandatory for starting the system the first time, etc..) One or two steps short of the hermetic lockdown of iOS devices.
vogon_laureate 5y ago
The latest release of OpenBSD also has preliminary support for the M1 macs. https://www.openbsd.org/69.html https://www.openbsd.org/69.html

rvz 5y ago

That's great news but how do users go about 'installing it' right now? I think the comments in 9to5mac are just as bewildered as I and many users are. By the time a guide is written, they would have moved on to getting an M1X or M2 Macbook, still waiting. It's only got kernel support, but is actually still not 'user ready'. Could take months for that to happen.

deaddodo 5y ago
You don't. Asahi is far away from usable. They've got initial kernel support in, which allows it to boot. However no drivers have been written yet, there's nothing ready in the userspace and it definitely doesn't have an installer. * Not decrying Asahi, they've done a lot of work and continue to do so. But it's best not to misrepresent the project's status.
- rvz 5y ago
  > They've got initial kernel support in, which allows it to boot. However no drivers have been written yet, there's nothing ready in the userspace and it definitely doesn't have an installer. Exactly my point as I have already said. We know it is not user ready but the parent comment is making as if it is already running on M1 Macs; which is hardly true. To debunk the M1 Linux hype squad again, it does not work to the point of it being usable and will take months to get it 'user ready'.
- marcan_42 5y ago
  Your description isn't quite accurate either. IRQ, DART drivers have been written; I2C, UART, NVMe, USB, PCI, USB-C/PD, Wi-Fi drivers have been adapted. I'm currently working on reverse engineering the display controller and will move onto the GPU after that. Alyssa has been working on the GPU userspace stack and the GLES2 tests are 80% or so passing, running mesa on macOS (open source userspace, Apple's kernel driver). I've spent a lot of time brainstorming the installer and researching the approach, and we already have manual install guide. I'll work on that as soon as the GPU kernel stuff is on track. As for userspace, there's nothing to be done for basic support; you can install any distro userspace you like. The main things there are the Mesa driver and, eventually, helpers for stuff like the Touch Bar (obviously we'll get the non-TB Macs running nicely earlier, TB is an annoying complication). Things are in various stages of development and review, and yes, only IRQ, UART and basic bring-up is upstreamed, but I think you'll find things get to end-user usability a lot faster than you might think.
rdaystrom 5y ago
I'm hoping it will be 'user ready' by the time the M5 multitronic Macbook comes out. That will be the ultimate computer.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  Until the M7 ... or M9 ... or some not-so-power-savvy-but-beast of a Ryzen shows up ... or ....
  - rdaystrom 5y ago
    Hopefully Captain Kirk doesn't end up destroying the M7 or M9. That would be annoying.
  - brokenmachine 5y ago
    Direct anal interface to Apple HQ. Can't wait.
SheinhardtWigCo 5y ago
It'll never be "user ready". It'll be like a Hackintosh: a quaint toy for hobbyists that is constantly broken by Apple's new stuff and therefore unlivable as a daily driver. Only the most fanatical folks would be willing to live on a flavor of Linux that can only survive hardware revisions through extensive reverse engineering efforts. I say this despite having a huge amount of respect for the developers.
- marcan_42 5y ago
  My job description is literally to prove you wrong :-)

deaddodo 5y ago

Asahi Linux hardly runs on M1. They're definitely spearheading research into the hardware and have done a ton. But the project is well into it's infancy. And it's doubtful Microsoft would ever go through the same effort to port Windows on ARM to the M1, instead probably relying on Apple's virtualization framework to allow it to run.

aeontech 5y ago
Sure, it doesn't happen overnight. My point was to point out to parent that Apple is not explicitly trying to block other OS's from booting, and alternatives will become available as the systems mature.
- deaddodo 5y ago
  You said “already” for Linux and “soon” for Windows. Neither (well one definitely the other speculatively) of which are true.
  - aeontech 5y ago
    You're right, I hadn't checked the site recently and I thought the project were further along - I should've said "booting already" to be conservative.
- sharikous 5y ago
  It is implicitly so. As far as I know you need to reverse engineer the whole process and disguise the kernel you want to run as a macOS Mach kernel. They keep a finger on the trigger by having an encrypted Secure Boot system, too. Not to mention how much the system is locked in (soldered SSD necessary for booting, Internet connection mandatory for starting the system the first time, etc..) One or two steps short of the hermetic lockdown of iOS devices.

vogon_laureate 5y ago

The latest release of OpenBSD also has preliminary support for the M1 macs. https://www.openbsd.org/69.html https://www.openbsd.org/69.html