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> The Israeli developers who wrote this software may not even have been exposed to the moral and ethical questions writing such software ought to raise Of cour

by zild3d 5y ago

> The Israeli developers who wrote this software may not even have been exposed to the moral and ethical questions writing such software ought to raise Of course they have been exposed to ethical questions for writing the software. If you know Israel well, and the famed Unit 8200 [0], the initial creation of this type of software is definitely built with morals in mind - saving lives is the entire impetus. Lots of security software out of Israel (see CheckPoint, a now public company) is first born out of the IDF with the goal of fighting terrorism and criminals. I don't see an ethics class being the answer here, as this type of cyber & security software has certainly saved lives. The issue is what happens after this software is developed, with seemingly justified reason to exist, and now in the hands of a business growing around it. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_8200 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_8200 [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/revealed-leak-uncovers-global-abuse-of-cyber-surveillance-weapon-nso-group-pegasus https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/revealed-leak-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_Point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_Point

bjourne 5y ago
I meant actual ethics - not Israeli hasbara (propaganda). Clearly, the perspective that the Israeli Defense Forces is the bravest and most moral army in the world and that everyone who resists the occupation are evil terrorists is not foreign to them! I meant real ethical questions. Do I have a responsibility if what I create is used for evil? Is "just following orders" a valid defense? Is it right to spy on people who haven't committed any crime? Is the life of a civilian on the enemy side worth less than the life of a civilian on my side? I'm a software developer so my life is all about identifying and fixing bugs. And it is a "bug" and a big problem that developers are willing to write software to hack journalists' and activists' cell phones. We should fix this bug. More ethics education? Shunning developers writing phone hacking software? I don't know what the solution is.
- throwaway984393 5y ago
  The solution, as it always has been, is political and educational. A fully-rounded education is essential to creating minds that use all sources of information - historical, statistical, philosophical, religious, etc - as data fed to a critical thinking machine (your brain). And politics must be of a nature that the best conclusions are elevated while the worst are discouraged. There will always be people who will build weapons, and those weapons can always be used on innocent people. The only hope we have is that the people holding the weapons will have the right environment and presence of mind, and we can only do that through culture and education.

by zild3d 5y ago

bjourne 5y ago

I meant actual ethics - not Israeli hasbara (propaganda). Clearly, the perspective that the Israeli Defense Forces is the bravest and most moral army in the world and that everyone who resists the occupation are evil terrorists is not foreign to them! I meant real ethical questions. Do I have a responsibility if what I create is used for evil? Is "just following orders" a valid defense? Is it right to spy on people who haven't committed any crime? Is the life of a civilian on the enemy side worth less than the life of a civilian on my side? I'm a software developer so my life is all about identifying and fixing bugs. And it is a "bug" and a big problem that developers are willing to write software to hack journalists' and activists' cell phones. We should fix this bug. More ethics education? Shunning developers writing phone hacking software? I don't know what the solution is.

throwaway984393 5y ago
The solution, as it always has been, is political and educational. A fully-rounded education is essential to creating minds that use all sources of information - historical, statistical, philosophical, religious, etc - as data fed to a critical thinking machine (your brain). And politics must be of a nature that the best conclusions are elevated while the worst are discouraged. There will always be people who will build weapons, and those weapons can always be used on innocent people. The only hope we have is that the people holding the weapons will have the right environment and presence of mind, and we can only do that through culture and education.