4 ms·

The real issue is gas hook-ups to homes, not just gas cooking. The author of this article just tried to frame it in the most controversial way possible. Using g

by mdoms 5y ago

The real issue is gas hook-ups to homes, not just gas cooking. The author of this article just tried to frame it in the most controversial way possible. Using gas to heat a home and provide cooking heat in an area where electricity is almost perfectly green is a big problem.

desine 5y ago
How do I cook with gas if not my home hookup? By driving my car to the nearest hardware store, purchasing or renting a steel propane tank, filling it from another tank that was filled by a truck that drove in, and driving home? This is death by 1000 cuts.
- mdoms 5y ago
  No, my point here is that you're saying we're "blaming gas stoves for climate change" but no one is saying that. However gas hookups are a big contributor to carbon output for a family home.
  - desine 5y ago
    I guarantee the habits of the habitants are greater. But no politician wants to run around chastising their voter base, so that's not an option.
    - spfzero 5y ago
      What they actually don’t want to do, is chastise their funding base. With enough funding, your campaign can convince all the voters they need.
- balfirevic 5y ago
  If you're asking seriously, you get a gas canister delivered to your home (and they take the empty one) or you do the same at the gas station. Cities don't have gas hooked up to homes in the part of country where I live, so that's how people do it.
- akiselev 5y ago
  You put a tank outside or in your garage next to the water heater and a truck comes and refills it once or twice a year. You can use propane or natural gas. Tens of millions of Americans living in rural and exurban areas have been cooking like this since before we were born. This is what we’d call a “solved problem.”
  - beerandt 5y ago
    >This is what we’d call a “solved problem.” Natural gas run directly to the home is a solved problem. Yet we're having this discussion.
willis936 5y ago
Where is electricity almost perfectly green? Burning at the house is thermodynamically much more efficient (and by extension much more green) than burning at a plant for resistive heating at the house. Nowhere in the US is even close to having an energy mix where this is not the case. Why take steps backward and pollute more? Shouldn't we be trying to make strides to reduce emissions?
- fy20 5y ago
  A study in the UK found that heating with electricity has lower carbon emissions than heating with natural gas: > the average efficiency of gas heating rose slowly to 86% over the last decade, so that carbon emissions from producing 1 kWh of central heating [using natural gas] fell to 215 grams of CO2 in 2019. However, simple [resistance] electric heaters averaged only 207 grams of carbon dioxide per kWh by the end of 2019 https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Carbon_emissions_of_electric_heating_v_gas https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Carbon_emissions_o... For new buildings the effect is probably even greater, as you are probably going to choose a heat pump (2-5kW heat output for 1kW electrical input) over resistance heating. The US averages around 400g CO2 per kWh, so yes maybe resistance heating doesn't make sense, but heat pumps for sure do.
  - willis936 5y ago
    I'll grant that heat pumps in the US should be standard, but no one is going to cook stir fry with a heat pump.
- sgustard 5y ago
  Much of Santa Clara county CA offers 100% carbon free electricity by default. https://www.svcleanenergy.org/ https://www.svcleanenergy.org/
  - seibelj 5y ago
    Wind turbines are manufactured using petrochemicals and currently have no way of being recycled, so they build up when they are replaced. GE hopes to turn them into some form of cement, but that may take decades https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turbine-blades-can-t-be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turb... Solar panels are built in China, powered by coal and slave labor. My point is there is no such thing as a free lunch, and a lot of "green" tech is very much not-so at this point.

by mdoms 5y ago

desine 5y ago

How do I cook with gas if not my home hookup? By driving my car to the nearest hardware store, purchasing or renting a steel propane tank, filling it from another tank that was filled by a truck that drove in, and driving home? This is death by 1000 cuts.

mdoms 5y ago
No, my point here is that you're saying we're "blaming gas stoves for climate change" but no one is saying that. However gas hookups are a big contributor to carbon output for a family home.
- desine 5y ago
  I guarantee the habits of the habitants are greater. But no politician wants to run around chastising their voter base, so that's not an option.
  - spfzero 5y ago
    What they actually don’t want to do, is chastise their funding base. With enough funding, your campaign can convince all the voters they need.
balfirevic 5y ago
If you're asking seriously, you get a gas canister delivered to your home (and they take the empty one) or you do the same at the gas station. Cities don't have gas hooked up to homes in the part of country where I live, so that's how people do it.
akiselev 5y ago
You put a tank outside or in your garage next to the water heater and a truck comes and refills it once or twice a year. You can use propane or natural gas. Tens of millions of Americans living in rural and exurban areas have been cooking like this since before we were born. This is what we’d call a “solved problem.”
- beerandt 5y ago
  >This is what we’d call a “solved problem.” Natural gas run directly to the home is a solved problem. Yet we're having this discussion.

willis936 5y ago

Where is electricity almost perfectly green? Burning at the house is thermodynamically much more efficient (and by extension much more green) than burning at a plant for resistive heating at the house. Nowhere in the US is even close to having an energy mix where this is not the case. Why take steps backward and pollute more? Shouldn't we be trying to make strides to reduce emissions?

fy20 5y ago
A study in the UK found that heating with electricity has lower carbon emissions than heating with natural gas: > the average efficiency of gas heating rose slowly to 86% over the last decade, so that carbon emissions from producing 1 kWh of central heating [using natural gas] fell to 215 grams of CO2 in 2019. However, simple [resistance] electric heaters averaged only 207 grams of carbon dioxide per kWh by the end of 2019 https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Carbon_emissions_of_electric_heating_v_gas https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Carbon_emissions_o... For new buildings the effect is probably even greater, as you are probably going to choose a heat pump (2-5kW heat output for 1kW electrical input) over resistance heating. The US averages around 400g CO2 per kWh, so yes maybe resistance heating doesn't make sense, but heat pumps for sure do.
- willis936 5y ago
  I'll grant that heat pumps in the US should be standard, but no one is going to cook stir fry with a heat pump.
sgustard 5y ago
Much of Santa Clara county CA offers 100% carbon free electricity by default. https://www.svcleanenergy.org/ https://www.svcleanenergy.org/
- seibelj 5y ago
  Wind turbines are manufactured using petrochemicals and currently have no way of being recycled, so they build up when they are replaced. GE hopes to turn them into some form of cement, but that may take decades https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turbine-blades-can-t-be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turb... Solar panels are built in China, powered by coal and slave labor. My point is there is no such thing as a free lunch, and a lot of "green" tech is very much not-so at this point.