4 ms·

This quote is taken out of context - see https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century?t=1

by sbuk 5y ago

This quote is taken out of context - see https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century?t=1626633566782 https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou...

eloff 5y ago
Interesting. So he wasn't saying what people today think he was saying. Let me fix it: Those who would sacrifice freedom for temporary security will eventually lose both and deserve neither. - me, 2021 Doesn't quite carry the same weight with my name behind it, but I stand by it nonetheless.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  I suppose it is somewhat natural that “abolish the police” would be a stance a freedom-lover such as yourself would take.
- sbuk 5y ago
  I agree with your sentiment, in part, but I see this quote used in this context so often, that I felt that it's worth pointing out.
  - eloff 5y ago
    Yes, it was interesting to read about the historical context, thanks for pointing it out. I also think the contemporary interpretation of literature, or a quote in this case, often matters more than what the author originally intended - it can take on a life of its own.
renewiltord 5y ago
I have read all of these explanations multiple times and have always had trouble reconciling everything here. What do the words “liberty”, “purchase”, and “security” mean in this quotation? As best as I can tell: - liberty: the right to be sovereign and able to defend oneself - security: safety from having taxes levied - purchase: the guys being taxed said instead “look, we’ll give you money this one time instead but we don’t want you to have the right to levy taxes” Okay, I guess that makes sense.
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  I wouldn’t necessarily assume that purchase means with taxes. I think there’s an interpretation this is a non-monetary cost.
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    If you don't mind, can you kindly explain?
throwawayboise 5y ago
Franklin used that line in more than one context. He also said "The Massachusetts must suffer all the Hazards and Mischiefs of War, rather than admit the Alteration of their Charters and Laws by Parliament. They who can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." https://franklinpapers.org/framedVolumes.jsp?vol=21&page=497b https://franklinpapers.org/framedVolumes.jsp?vol=21&page=497... I think less important than the nuance of what Franklin meant in any specific statement, is that what most people mean when they use that quote is its literal meaning, and that if you look at Franklin's life and body of work he was clearly a staunch defender of the idea that Liberty is a God-given (or inherent) right of mankind, and one worth defending.

by sbuk 5y ago

eloff 5y ago

Interesting. So he wasn't saying what people today think he was saying. Let me fix it: Those who would sacrifice freedom for temporary security will eventually lose both and deserve neither. - me, 2021 Doesn't quite carry the same weight with my name behind it, but I stand by it nonetheless.

renewiltord 5y ago
I suppose it is somewhat natural that “abolish the police” would be a stance a freedom-lover such as yourself would take.
sbuk 5y ago
I agree with your sentiment, in part, but I see this quote used in this context so often, that I felt that it's worth pointing out.
- eloff 5y ago
  Yes, it was interesting to read about the historical context, thanks for pointing it out. I also think the contemporary interpretation of literature, or a quote in this case, often matters more than what the author originally intended - it can take on a life of its own.

renewiltord 5y ago

I have read all of these explanations multiple times and have always had trouble reconciling everything here. What do the words “liberty”, “purchase”, and “security” mean in this quotation? As best as I can tell: - liberty: the right to be sovereign and able to defend oneself - security: safety from having taxes levied - purchase: the guys being taxed said instead “look, we’ll give you money this one time instead but we don’t want you to have the right to levy taxes” Okay, I guess that makes sense.

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
I wouldn’t necessarily assume that purchase means with taxes. I think there’s an interpretation this is a non-monetary cost.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  If you don't mind, can you kindly explain?

throwawayboise 5y ago

Franklin used that line in more than one context. He also said "The Massachusetts must suffer all the Hazards and Mischiefs of War, rather than admit the Alteration of their Charters and Laws by Parliament. They who can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." https://franklinpapers.org/framedVolumes.jsp?vol=21&page=497b https://franklinpapers.org/framedVolumes.jsp?vol=21&page=497... I think less important than the nuance of what Franklin meant in any specific statement, is that what most people mean when they use that quote is its literal meaning, and that if you look at Franklin's life and body of work he was clearly a staunch defender of the idea that Liberty is a God-given (or inherent) right of mankind, and one worth defending.