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Israel is not in the NATO and it's time that we Westerners stop treating it as a Western entity. More than half of the Israeli population are of Mizrahi (Arab)

Israel is not in the NATO and it's time that we Westerners stop treating it as a Western entity. More than half of the Israeli population are of Mizrahi (Arab) and Sephardi (North African) ancestry. Many of them are post-1948 refugees from other Middle Eastern country. It will be easier to understand Israeli cynicism toward the Arab and Islamic world, which includes selling surveillance software to brutal Arab regimes, if we stop assuming that the country is made of Western Jews.

joelbluminator 5y ago
Well in the same note it would be best to assume Israel is not a liberal democracy then...
- baybal2 5y ago
  Well, it really, factually isn't for a very obvious reason. It's Western leaders trying their best to make it seem they don't notice it.
  - joelbluminator 5y ago
    You can make the case the occupation is temporary and Israel isn't looking to hold these territories forever; in that case Israel can be viewed as a democracy. But yeah, the settlements weaken that argument. Nevertheless Israel proper is the closest thing to a democracy that region has.
bogomipz 5y ago
>"More than half of the Israeli population are of Mizrahi (Arab) and Sephardi (North African) ancestry." The Sephardi are Jews from the Iberian Peninsula who were expelled in the 15th century by Ferdiand and Isabella in the Alhambra Decree. Sefarad is the Hebrew word for Spain. Mizrahi would include include both Northern Africa and what we today call the Middle East. Mizrahi is also not an Arab disctintion - example Jews from Persia would be Mizrahi as would Jews from Central Asian countries. Mizrahi means Eastern or Oriental in Hebrew.
- joelbluminator 5y ago
  Some Jews lived in Arab/Muslim/Persian places before being expelled from Spain so they don't originate from Spain. I think most of them didn't actually.
  - bogomipz 5y ago
    Nowhere did I say they "originate" from Spain. Obviously the Jewish people originated from the Land of Israel in the Southern Levant. After the Roman conquest of Judaea[1] begins the diaspora and those we now call Sephardic migrated to Spain and Portugal. They were there for a good 1,700 years before being expelled. I think that's sufficiently long enough to consider them Iberian. Historians do as well. This is actually widely accepted. Further it only makes sense to consider the names Sephardic, Ashkenazic and Mizrahi from the point of the diaspora forward. Those names literally would not exist without the diaspora. Your comment makes no sense historically or otherwise. It's also very bizarre that that you write "Arab/Muslim/Persian" to denote different geographical distinctions when only one of those things is. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Spain
    - joelbluminator 5y ago
      I don't think we have an argument actually, all I said was not all Mizrahi jews descend from the Sephardics, I don't have any numbers though but definitely not all of them.

joelbluminator 5y ago

Well in the same note it would be best to assume Israel is not a liberal democracy then...

baybal2 5y ago
Well, it really, factually isn't for a very obvious reason. It's Western leaders trying their best to make it seem they don't notice it.
- joelbluminator 5y ago
  You can make the case the occupation is temporary and Israel isn't looking to hold these territories forever; in that case Israel can be viewed as a democracy. But yeah, the settlements weaken that argument. Nevertheless Israel proper is the closest thing to a democracy that region has.

bogomipz 5y ago

>"More than half of the Israeli population are of Mizrahi (Arab) and Sephardi (North African) ancestry." The Sephardi are Jews from the Iberian Peninsula who were expelled in the 15th century by Ferdiand and Isabella in the Alhambra Decree. Sefarad is the Hebrew word for Spain. Mizrahi would include include both Northern Africa and what we today call the Middle East. Mizrahi is also not an Arab disctintion - example Jews from Persia would be Mizrahi as would Jews from Central Asian countries. Mizrahi means Eastern or Oriental in Hebrew.

joelbluminator 5y ago
Some Jews lived in Arab/Muslim/Persian places before being expelled from Spain so they don't originate from Spain. I think most of them didn't actually.
- bogomipz 5y ago
  Nowhere did I say they "originate" from Spain. Obviously the Jewish people originated from the Land of Israel in the Southern Levant. After the Roman conquest of Judaea[1] begins the diaspora and those we now call Sephardic migrated to Spain and Portugal. They were there for a good 1,700 years before being expelled. I think that's sufficiently long enough to consider them Iberian. Historians do as well. This is actually widely accepted. Further it only makes sense to consider the names Sephardic, Ashkenazic and Mizrahi from the point of the diaspora forward. Those names literally would not exist without the diaspora. Your comment makes no sense historically or otherwise. It's also very bizarre that that you write "Arab/Muslim/Persian" to denote different geographical distinctions when only one of those things is. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Spain
  - joelbluminator 5y ago
    I don't think we have an argument actually, all I said was not all Mizrahi jews descend from the Sephardics, I don't have any numbers though but definitely not all of them.