4 ms·

I think it can work but I wish you and the NYT would acknowledge this for what it is - a government subsidized black-market internet business. I think it would

I think it can work but I wish you and the NYT would acknowledge this for what it is - a government subsidized black-market internet business. I think it would easy to start many businesses by replacing “employees” with “volunteers” and “wages” with “tips” to avoid all of the record keeping, payroll taxes, legal liability, regulations, and all of the issues that make running a normal organization in a liberal city (or any city with the rule of law) difficult and expensive. Even easier when the tax payers gave me money to do so. I’m all for this, but I hope you realize operating something like this at scale is only possible because you aren’t paying even a minimum wage and are avoiding all the hassles and rules that make doing this according to what society wants for all other non-profit and profit entities. This is gig-economy ISP which apparently is great here but the NYT and leftists hate for all other places.

yepthatsreality 5y ago
No I think it’s a great blueprint for other places, that’s one of the most exciting parts of it. Listen it might eventually evolve into a more standard operation but why does everything have to be profitable and have employees and be set up as a business? This is working until it doesn’t and their track record shows no sign of slowing. All the issues for this ISP still apply to other ISPs. This one just happened to grow out of the interests of the community. > “NYT and leftists” No reason to politicize this and pigeon hole advocates.
- seibelj 5y ago
  My understanding from your original comment about “capitalism” was that there is a strong ideological bent to this which is why I mentioned that. We are in agreement on the actions and ends but probably disagree on the means, whereas I come from a strong capitalist bent. I wish we could apply the same no-entity, no regulation, no-taxes, no formal employment model to many other things including housing and education. But for this one thing it’s OK, but for others it’s not. I wish we could let lots of experiments exist free of the strangling governmental structures.
  - yepthatsreality 5y ago
    No ideological bent just being general. I can see how one could misconstrue that from what I wrote.
brenschluss 5y ago
Uh, do you apply this argument to open source software as well? That open source libraries are a “black-market internet business”? Honestly it’s wild to see this kind of logic of HN. Goes to show how much technology has become more about business culture than about the technology itself.
- seibelj 5y ago
  You must agree that open source software and physical hardware installed on buildings powering a critical service are different things? The ISPs have enormous labor forces that are represented by telecom unions, this is an extremely regulated heavily subsidized industry. Open source software has nothing to do with this.
  - simfree 5y ago
    http://guifi.net http://guifi.net has worked for well over a decade, providing monthly fee free internet connectivity to tens of thousands of homes and businesses across Spain. NYC Mesh's model isn't groundbreaking, rather it is set up like Guifi.net to encourage other small businesses to crop up supporting individuals who want to join the network.

yepthatsreality 5y ago

No I think it’s a great blueprint for other places, that’s one of the most exciting parts of it. Listen it might eventually evolve into a more standard operation but why does everything have to be profitable and have employees and be set up as a business? This is working until it doesn’t and their track record shows no sign of slowing. All the issues for this ISP still apply to other ISPs. This one just happened to grow out of the interests of the community. > “NYT and leftists” No reason to politicize this and pigeon hole advocates.

seibelj 5y ago
My understanding from your original comment about “capitalism” was that there is a strong ideological bent to this which is why I mentioned that. We are in agreement on the actions and ends but probably disagree on the means, whereas I come from a strong capitalist bent. I wish we could apply the same no-entity, no regulation, no-taxes, no formal employment model to many other things including housing and education. But for this one thing it’s OK, but for others it’s not. I wish we could let lots of experiments exist free of the strangling governmental structures.
- yepthatsreality 5y ago
  No ideological bent just being general. I can see how one could misconstrue that from what I wrote.

brenschluss 5y ago

Uh, do you apply this argument to open source software as well? That open source libraries are a “black-market internet business”? Honestly it’s wild to see this kind of logic of HN. Goes to show how much technology has become more about business culture than about the technology itself.

seibelj 5y ago
You must agree that open source software and physical hardware installed on buildings powering a critical service are different things? The ISPs have enormous labor forces that are represented by telecom unions, this is an extremely regulated heavily subsidized industry. Open source software has nothing to do with this.
- simfree 5y ago
  http://guifi.net http://guifi.net has worked for well over a decade, providing monthly fee free internet connectivity to tens of thousands of homes and businesses across Spain. NYC Mesh's model isn't groundbreaking, rather it is set up like Guifi.net to encourage other small businesses to crop up supporting individuals who want to join the network.