4 ms·

Bash scripts are very capable these days… and for many years.

by j45 5y ago

intev 5y ago
I think the whole point of this exercise is to find out where to draw the line in terms of abstracting out deployment steps and increasing deployment speed. The vast majority will agree that it is NOT at bash scripts. Once you get to a few micro services, good luck maintaining that. C++ has been amazingly powerful for years, but there's a reason popularity isn't exploding...
- j45 5y ago
  Bash scripts are pretty good in the beginning. I have scaled systems and they remain helpful as scale is built. A lot of bash commands are automated in Devops tools too.
void_mint 5y ago
Why not build everything in Assembly?
- Brian_K_White 5y ago
  Oh let me clear that up for you. This article and this comment discussion assumes a certain familiarity with computers and system administration, which, to ask a question like that, you must not have. So a bash script is this thing that's very functional, flexible, legible, can be written quickly and easily, can be maintained and updated quickly and easily, and is even portable across platforms, and it gives you all that without a teetering fragile tower of library and framework dependencies that most other automation systems rely on. Every system already has bash or some equivalent Bourne shell for free. Assembly has none of those qualities. Are there any other mysteries we can clear up? I mean we all had to start somewhere and "there are no stupid questions" right?
  - void_mint 5y ago
    > Oh let me clear that up for you. > Are there any other mysteries we can clear up? I mean we all had to start somewhere and "there are no stupid questions" right? I'm surprised at how big a jackass a single person can appear in such a concise response. Every time a new technology shows up, there are lots of "Why not just use < insert old technology >?" The answer is obvious, and can be most highlighted by leaning harder into the absurdity of "Why not just use < insert old technology>?", which is, why does any technology exist beyond Assembly if all that's old is good enough? But, given you can't behave like a grown up, I'd rather not continue this comment tree.
    - Brian_K_White 5y ago
      You asked a question. I answered the question. The answer was neither a lie nor in error. If you want to remark that the answer was disingeuous without acknowleding the same about your own, then you are in no position to be talking about jackasses and growing up.
    - j45 5y ago
      That’s just the thing. Bash isn’t old and therefore lacking in value. It’s not absurd either. A lot of bash commands like sed automate editing config files that systems like ansible and docker rely on. Since you haven’t really shared your experience with bash, assembly (or not), or what you prefer instead, it’s really hard to openly entertain viewpoints that aren’t your own when the other party isn’t demonstrating it As well. I use bash, docker, Ansible or whatever else will do the job. I can orchestrate vms and also configure bare metal. I use public clouds, private clouds, hybrid clouds. These could all be interesting things to mutually learn and talk about but maybe it’s more enjoyable for you to have others put in mental labour for you. The one thing complex hosting experience gives you is not to discount any solution for fear of what others may think. It’s where the real world of scaling is. Deciding on what’s best solely by what’s new, popular or social proof can leave a developer exposed where the rest of groupthink may be - often reinventing the wheels over and over in new languages to learn the fundamentals of why it will or will not work out in the end.
  - j45 5y ago
- j45 5y ago
  It’s not sure if you’ve used assembly before, but it can be a little more work than high level tools like docker and kubernetes.
  - void_mint 5y ago
    Sure, as can Bash.
sdevonoes 5y ago
I find Ansible (the good parts of it) a better version of bash scripts.
- j45 5y ago
  Agreed. Ansible also calls plenty of command line commands, like bash scripts. Looking at Linode stackscripts or a DigitalOcean tutorials can be pretty surprising too.

Bash scripts are very capable these days… and for many years.

by j45 5y ago

Bash scripts are very capable these days… and for many years.

I think the whole point of this exercise is to find out where to draw the line in terms of abstracting out deployment steps and increasing deployment speed. The vast majority will agree that it is NOT at bash scripts. Once you get to a few micro services, good luck maintaining that. C++ has been amazingly powerful for years, but there's a reason popularity isn't exploding...

j45 5y ago
Bash scripts are pretty good in the beginning. I have scaled systems and they remain helpful as scale is built. A lot of bash commands are automated in Devops tools too.

void_mint 5y ago

Why not build everything in Assembly?

Brian_K_White 5y ago
Oh let me clear that up for you. This article and this comment discussion assumes a certain familiarity with computers and system administration, which, to ask a question like that, you must not have. So a bash script is this thing that's very functional, flexible, legible, can be written quickly and easily, can be maintained and updated quickly and easily, and is even portable across platforms, and it gives you all that without a teetering fragile tower of library and framework dependencies that most other automation systems rely on. Every system already has bash or some equivalent Bourne shell for free. Assembly has none of those qualities. Are there any other mysteries we can clear up? I mean we all had to start somewhere and "there are no stupid questions" right?
- void_mint 5y ago
  > Oh let me clear that up for you. > Are there any other mysteries we can clear up? I mean we all had to start somewhere and "there are no stupid questions" right? I'm surprised at how big a jackass a single person can appear in such a concise response. Every time a new technology shows up, there are lots of "Why not just use < insert old technology >?" The answer is obvious, and can be most highlighted by leaning harder into the absurdity of "Why not just use < insert old technology>?", which is, why does any technology exist beyond Assembly if all that's old is good enough? But, given you can't behave like a grown up, I'd rather not continue this comment tree.
  - Brian_K_White 5y ago
    You asked a question. I answered the question. The answer was neither a lie nor in error. If you want to remark that the answer was disingeuous without acknowleding the same about your own, then you are in no position to be talking about jackasses and growing up.
  - j45 5y ago
    That’s just the thing. Bash isn’t old and therefore lacking in value. It’s not absurd either. A lot of bash commands like sed automate editing config files that systems like ansible and docker rely on. Since you haven’t really shared your experience with bash, assembly (or not), or what you prefer instead, it’s really hard to openly entertain viewpoints that aren’t your own when the other party isn’t demonstrating it As well. I use bash, docker, Ansible or whatever else will do the job. I can orchestrate vms and also configure bare metal. I use public clouds, private clouds, hybrid clouds. These could all be interesting things to mutually learn and talk about but maybe it’s more enjoyable for you to have others put in mental labour for you. The one thing complex hosting experience gives you is not to discount any solution for fear of what others may think. It’s where the real world of scaling is. Deciding on what’s best solely by what’s new, popular or social proof can leave a developer exposed where the rest of groupthink may be - often reinventing the wheels over and over in new languages to learn the fundamentals of why it will or will not work out in the end.
- j45 5y ago
j45 5y ago
It’s not sure if you’ve used assembly before, but it can be a little more work than high level tools like docker and kubernetes.
- void_mint 5y ago
  Sure, as can Bash.

sdevonoes 5y ago

I find Ansible (the good parts of it) a better version of bash scripts.

j45 5y ago
Agreed. Ansible also calls plenty of command line commands, like bash scripts. Looking at Linode stackscripts or a DigitalOcean tutorials can be pretty surprising too.