4 ms·

I don’t understand the “pay people more” sentiment. It _seems_ like the correct and obvious solution, but it seems like it just moves the goal line. Margins ar

I don’t understand the “pay people more” sentiment. It _seems_ like the correct and obvious solution, but it seems like it just moves the goal line. Margins are razor thin in restaurants specifically. If you pay people more, you’ll need to raise your prices and that will offset the pay raise if it happens across the board. What am I missing?

labawi 5y ago
Exports, tourists, buyers of inflated properties (income) CEOs, managers, capitalist rent-seekers (outflow)
HarryHirsch 5y ago
The fact that rents could drop but a readjustment of the value of real estate cannot be allowed to happen.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
over_bridge 5y ago
I suppose for a restaurant specifically, the people who work there and who eat there are very different. If higher wages leads to higher unit price, its not the worker paying that difference, its the wealthier customers. Of course in the general case, the places the workers do shop at, probably supermarkets, will notice that people have more money to spend and will likely try to capture that extra money for themselves - either because demand of certain items increases or just plain greed. So continues the endless, exhausting and unwinnable battle between wages and inflation
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  "its not the worker paying that difference, its the wealthier customers." Exactly.
  - listless 5y ago
    What if it becomes widespread? And every restaurant raises wages to attract workers while also raising prices? In other words, we need some people to be paid very little to produce the cheap food for these hire paid food service workers. Where is the bottom?
    - spaetzleesser 5y ago
      Something seems to be fundamentally wrong with an economy where we think that we need people to work in jobs that are paid so little that these people can't make a living. and it's viewed as a problem to raise their incomes. This while at the same time some people are becoming very rich and the country considers itself very wealthy.
      - listless 5y ago
        To be clear, I don't know that anyone thinks that we need people to work in jobs where they are paid so little that they can't make a living. I think those jobs work very well for students and folks who need part time income. What I am debating is whether raising rages simply causes inflation that then negates the effect of the wage. That's not a problem with an economy per-say, but rather just how an economy works. But perhaps I'm missing something. All of that said, I share the concern about wealth inequality. A country will eventually collapse if the people at the bottom feel like the game is rigged and they will never get ahead.
        spaetzleesser 5y ago
        “What I am debating is whether raising rages simply causes inflation that then negates the effect of the wage.” You could argue that exactly this has happened when upper incomes were raised disproportionately in the last few decades. All the major expenses/investments of that class like housing, health care, education, stocks and others shot up. Seems there is more money around than they can use productively so they just kept bidding up prices.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
- listless 5y ago
  "So continues the endless, exhausting and unwinnable battle between wages and inflation" That's how it seems to me as well. This article also mentions it towards the bottom in reference to restaurants in New Orleans... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/is-raising-the-minimum-wage-enough-to-address-the-racial-wealth-gap-for-service-workers/ar-AAMbiEN?ocid=entnewsntp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/is-raising-the-minimum-wag... Do we have any examples / models where people having figured out how to raise the bottom without raising the entire ladder?
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > If higher wages leads to higher unit price, its not the worker paying that difference, its the wealthier customers. But those wealthier customers probably provide high-end labor inputs to goods and services the redtaurant worker consumes, so driving up their expenses increases their salary demands which drives up the costs of the goods and services their labor contributes to, thus driving up the restaurant worker’s cost of living. Obviously this will be very attenuated, but it is a real effect.

labawi 5y ago

Exports, tourists, buyers of inflated properties (income) CEOs, managers, capitalist rent-seekers (outflow)

HarryHirsch 5y ago

The fact that rents could drop but a readjustment of the value of real estate cannot be allowed to happen.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

over_bridge 5y ago

I suppose for a restaurant specifically, the people who work there and who eat there are very different. If higher wages leads to higher unit price, its not the worker paying that difference, its the wealthier customers. Of course in the general case, the places the workers do shop at, probably supermarkets, will notice that people have more money to spend and will likely try to capture that extra money for themselves - either because demand of certain items increases or just plain greed. So continues the endless, exhausting and unwinnable battle between wages and inflation

spaetzleesser 5y ago
"its not the worker paying that difference, its the wealthier customers." Exactly.
- listless 5y ago
  What if it becomes widespread? And every restaurant raises wages to attract workers while also raising prices? In other words, we need some people to be paid very little to produce the cheap food for these hire paid food service workers. Where is the bottom?
  - spaetzleesser 5y ago
    Something seems to be fundamentally wrong with an economy where we think that we need people to work in jobs that are paid so little that these people can't make a living. and it's viewed as a problem to raise their incomes. This while at the same time some people are becoming very rich and the country considers itself very wealthy.
    - listless 5y ago
      To be clear, I don't know that anyone thinks that we need people to work in jobs where they are paid so little that they can't make a living. I think those jobs work very well for students and folks who need part time income. What I am debating is whether raising rages simply causes inflation that then negates the effect of the wage. That's not a problem with an economy per-say, but rather just how an economy works. But perhaps I'm missing something. All of that said, I share the concern about wealth inequality. A country will eventually collapse if the people at the bottom feel like the game is rigged and they will never get ahead.
      - spaetzleesser 5y ago
        “What I am debating is whether raising rages simply causes inflation that then negates the effect of the wage.” You could argue that exactly this has happened when upper incomes were raised disproportionately in the last few decades. All the major expenses/investments of that class like housing, health care, education, stocks and others shot up. Seems there is more money around than they can use productively so they just kept bidding up prices.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
listless 5y ago
"So continues the endless, exhausting and unwinnable battle between wages and inflation" That's how it seems to me as well. This article also mentions it towards the bottom in reference to restaurants in New Orleans... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/is-raising-the-minimum-wage-enough-to-address-the-racial-wealth-gap-for-service-workers/ar-AAMbiEN?ocid=entnewsntp https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/is-raising-the-minimum-wag... Do we have any examples / models where people having figured out how to raise the bottom without raising the entire ladder?
dragonwriter 5y ago
> If higher wages leads to higher unit price, its not the worker paying that difference, its the wealthier customers. But those wealthier customers probably provide high-end labor inputs to goods and services the redtaurant worker consumes, so driving up their expenses increases their salary demands which drives up the costs of the goods and services their labor contributes to, thus driving up the restaurant worker’s cost of living. Obviously this will be very attenuated, but it is a real effect.