5 ms·

Likewise, I'd also prefer not jumping on the hype and have tried to avoid K8s so far, but Something I'd take docker is: deployment speed. Baking images and de

Likewise, I'd also prefer not jumping on the hype and have tried to avoid K8s so far, but Something I'd take docker is: deployment speed. Baking images and deploying new ASG makes production deployments take around ~ 15 min. Docker based solution could probably cut it down to 5 mins. Also more inclined to use a simpler/hands off service like ECS Fargate than straight kubernetes. Also seems like over half the jobs being currently posted require k8s skills, might be difficult to avoid it for much longer

hughrr 5y ago
I am doing blue/green deployments with ansible in 30 seconds from package deploy across 20 nodes. YMMV but docker doesn't inherently make anything faster itself.
- stfp 5y ago
  Out of curiosity, what kind of artifacts are you deploying and how are you building them?
  - hughrr 5y ago
    Build in Jenkins. self-contained ReadyToRun .Net core apps. Couple of smaller Go apps. I rather like Go. Target package contains one file! Config is inherited from the environment and cloud provider as the targets are Amazon Linux 2 based.
    - ecnahc515 5y ago
      Compiled executables are pretty simple to deploy without containers. The benefit of containers is that it can help standardize that type of benefit to other runtimes like Python/Ruby where it's much more challenging to just ship an artifact. In addition to that, with cgroups and namespaces you get a lot of other benefits, which can be used with eg: systemd/etc but it's nice when one tool handles all of it.
      - hughrr 5y ago
        Yes exactly. It's a solution to a problem. My point is it is better to avoid the problem than employ a solution.
        meowface 5y ago
        It's not easy when the only way to avoid the problem you describe is to rewrite your whole project(s) in a language like Go. I like Go and have used standalone binaries instead of Docker containers when deploying Go applications, but I don't always work with Go applications. As other posters said, Docker largely exists to help with any situation where you don't have a single binary. These situations are still very common for many developers and devops engineers. And in those cases, Docker can be very helpful.
- PaywallBuster 5y ago
  each VM can take 1-2 min to deploy launch vm: 1-2 min config/deploy: 3-5 min (ansible) create image: 2/3 min launch new asg: 2-5 min Containers greatly reduce most of these steps
  - hughrr 5y ago
    We just leave the instances running. Why burn the universe a thousand times a day?
    - PaywallBuster 5y ago
      that's one of the reasons to pay for cloud providers. You can adjust your paid resources to actual usage. This is one way to do it. (search Immutable Infrastructure) For this application, traffic is quite stable so it doesn't come up often. But once or twice, we had some bug causing performance regressions. They were not visible on the first day, but as usage grew over time the cluster started growing with the problem. So it allowed the application to stay online (at an additional cost) until devs pick up the problem and have a solution ready, probably coming up in the following sprint only.
      - hughrr 5y ago
        yeah aware of that. We do that as well. But scheduled scaling.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
>Baking images and deploying new ASG makes production deployments take around ~ 15 min. >Docker based solution could probably cut it down to 5 mins. this reminds me of when I was working on the Danish government electronic invoicing project. The political driver of the project had made some statement along the line that a minute was going to be saved on every invoice sent (which I mean there would be millions and millions of minutes saved every month), and someone else made the observation in my hearing that he doubted that time saved would be monetizable. Which I took to mean that when small amounts of time are saved those are likely just swallowed by meaningless other tasks and not used effectively. I doubt the 10 minutes saved per deploy by using Docker would be monetizable.
- PaywallBuster 5y ago
  probably )) For our biggest app, Drupal, deployments are kind of hands on. Dev(s) are waiting for the deployment, do some post deployment steps, check logs for any issues, make announcements, etc and if we had to rollback, the easy solution is to find the previous deployment and run it again, speed would be probably be beneficial here
- rahimnathwani 5y ago
  When they talked about time saved, were they referring to: A) effort (aka 'man-hours'), or B) duration (aka 'wall clock time') ?
hashkb 5y ago
Fargate provisioning is really slow. Minute or two at best, in my experience. I went back to ASG and Codebuild. Packer for AMI rebuilds.
- kcartlidge 5y ago
  +1 Packer doesn't get enough love.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    Try building windows images on it. That will balance the love out a bit :)

hughrr 5y ago

I am doing blue/green deployments with ansible in 30 seconds from package deploy across 20 nodes. YMMV but docker doesn't inherently make anything faster itself.

stfp 5y ago
Out of curiosity, what kind of artifacts are you deploying and how are you building them?
- hughrr 5y ago
  Build in Jenkins. self-contained ReadyToRun .Net core apps. Couple of smaller Go apps. I rather like Go. Target package contains one file! Config is inherited from the environment and cloud provider as the targets are Amazon Linux 2 based.
  - ecnahc515 5y ago
    Compiled executables are pretty simple to deploy without containers. The benefit of containers is that it can help standardize that type of benefit to other runtimes like Python/Ruby where it's much more challenging to just ship an artifact. In addition to that, with cgroups and namespaces you get a lot of other benefits, which can be used with eg: systemd/etc but it's nice when one tool handles all of it.
    - hughrr 5y ago
      Yes exactly. It's a solution to a problem. My point is it is better to avoid the problem than employ a solution.
      - meowface 5y ago
        It's not easy when the only way to avoid the problem you describe is to rewrite your whole project(s) in a language like Go. I like Go and have used standalone binaries instead of Docker containers when deploying Go applications, but I don't always work with Go applications. As other posters said, Docker largely exists to help with any situation where you don't have a single binary. These situations are still very common for many developers and devops engineers. And in those cases, Docker can be very helpful.
PaywallBuster 5y ago
each VM can take 1-2 min to deploy launch vm: 1-2 min config/deploy: 3-5 min (ansible) create image: 2/3 min launch new asg: 2-5 min Containers greatly reduce most of these steps
- hughrr 5y ago
  We just leave the instances running. Why burn the universe a thousand times a day?
  - PaywallBuster 5y ago
    that's one of the reasons to pay for cloud providers. You can adjust your paid resources to actual usage. This is one way to do it. (search Immutable Infrastructure) For this application, traffic is quite stable so it doesn't come up often. But once or twice, we had some bug causing performance regressions. They were not visible on the first day, but as usage grew over time the cluster started growing with the problem. So it allowed the application to stay online (at an additional cost) until devs pick up the problem and have a solution ready, probably coming up in the following sprint only.
    - hughrr 5y ago
      yeah aware of that. We do that as well. But scheduled scaling.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

>Baking images and deploying new ASG makes production deployments take around ~ 15 min. >Docker based solution could probably cut it down to 5 mins. this reminds me of when I was working on the Danish government electronic invoicing project. The political driver of the project had made some statement along the line that a minute was going to be saved on every invoice sent (which I mean there would be millions and millions of minutes saved every month), and someone else made the observation in my hearing that he doubted that time saved would be monetizable. Which I took to mean that when small amounts of time are saved those are likely just swallowed by meaningless other tasks and not used effectively. I doubt the 10 minutes saved per deploy by using Docker would be monetizable.

PaywallBuster 5y ago
probably )) For our biggest app, Drupal, deployments are kind of hands on. Dev(s) are waiting for the deployment, do some post deployment steps, check logs for any issues, make announcements, etc and if we had to rollback, the easy solution is to find the previous deployment and run it again, speed would be probably be beneficial here
rahimnathwani 5y ago
When they talked about time saved, were they referring to: A) effort (aka 'man-hours'), or B) duration (aka 'wall clock time') ?

hashkb 5y ago

Fargate provisioning is really slow. Minute or two at best, in my experience. I went back to ASG and Codebuild. Packer for AMI rebuilds.

kcartlidge 5y ago
+1 Packer doesn't get enough love.
- hughrr 5y ago
  Try building windows images on it. That will balance the love out a bit :)