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In Player of Games, the protagonist is a Culture human, but has no control over and no idea what will happen at the end (actually, he is deceived about the natu

In Player of Games, the protagonist is a Culture human, but has no control over and no idea what will happen at the end (actually, he is deceived about the nature of his visit), which is all orchestrated by Minds - "his" drone being their prolonged hand, playing a servant until it isn't. In Consider Phlebas, the main character is defeated by a Mind which then mockingly takes his name. Read Excession to see the full extent of the Minds' control over Culture - literally nothing is decided by humans, they're played around with. However, it seems to be possible to live out a full life without any major interference, in total comfort and experiencing unimaginable things. IMHO it's a good tradeoff, one just has to stay far away from Contact and especially Special Circumstances.

YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
I've read Excession - that was not the impression I got. See my sibling comment linking to Iain M. Banks' own summary of the Culture. My reading is that he absolutely did not mean for humans to be exploited, subservient, played around with, treated as pets or anything of the sort. The impression I got from the books you quote is that humans and machines treat each other as equals and neither has any kind of societal power above the other, in theory or in practice, inside the Culture. And I may forget the details of most other Culture books but this is the general impression I got from reading them, also. In fact, in my view anyway, this harmonious and equitable co-existence of humans and machines is a central part of the Culture's bright-eyed techno-utopianism. The Culture is a utopia partly because humans and machines have managed, together, to create a society where both can exist as equals. The humans did not treat the machines as slaves and the machines did not treat the humans as inferior. Optimist, Roddenberrian sci-fi in its finest.
- emteycz 5y ago
  In Excession, on multiple occassions, the Minds literally say that humans are inferior and ultimately don't matter; and there isn't a single human in the loop anywhere, even in dealing with the most important event in history of the Culture, everything is decided by the Minds. Even killing a human accidentaly in the crossfire of a secret scheme (Gestra) is alright. Again though, the situations described are the most extreme and special, and ordinary lives are lived out in bliss and peaceful coexistence. I don't view the Minds as dystopian control-freaks, I'd be happy to let them be in charge of the universe while living out a life within the utopia they create; I can't imagine humans creating something better - most probably it'd be much worse, more like the Klingon Empire (or even the Terran Empire, maybe) than the Culture or United Federation of Planets.

YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago

I've read Excession - that was not the impression I got. See my sibling comment linking to Iain M. Banks' own summary of the Culture. My reading is that he absolutely did not mean for humans to be exploited, subservient, played around with, treated as pets or anything of the sort. The impression I got from the books you quote is that humans and machines treat each other as equals and neither has any kind of societal power above the other, in theory or in practice, inside the Culture. And I may forget the details of most other Culture books but this is the general impression I got from reading them, also. In fact, in my view anyway, this harmonious and equitable co-existence of humans and machines is a central part of the Culture's bright-eyed techno-utopianism. The Culture is a utopia partly because humans and machines have managed, together, to create a society where both can exist as equals. The humans did not treat the machines as slaves and the machines did not treat the humans as inferior. Optimist, Roddenberrian sci-fi in its finest.

emteycz 5y ago
In Excession, on multiple occassions, the Minds literally say that humans are inferior and ultimately don't matter; and there isn't a single human in the loop anywhere, even in dealing with the most important event in history of the Culture, everything is decided by the Minds. Even killing a human accidentaly in the crossfire of a secret scheme (Gestra) is alright. Again though, the situations described are the most extreme and special, and ordinary lives are lived out in bliss and peaceful coexistence. I don't view the Minds as dystopian control-freaks, I'd be happy to let them be in charge of the universe while living out a life within the utopia they create; I can't imagine humans creating something better - most probably it'd be much worse, more like the Klingon Empire (or even the Terran Empire, maybe) than the Culture or United Federation of Planets.