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Mesh is such an awesome project. I remember when the pandemic lockdowns started I spoke to friends that teach in poorer neighborhoods and they regarded the scho

Mesh is such an awesome project. I remember when the pandemic lockdowns started I spoke to friends that teach in poorer neighborhoods and they regarded the schools plans as a joke: even if they distributed Chromebooks/tablets to every student without one, a lot of them didn’t have an internet connection to use it with. A Mesh network with antennas on top of public buildings (schools, libraries) could have been a huge asset. That said, I don’t have a Mesh internet connection because I live in a large apartment building and would need permission from the building owner to install anything. Even then, there are thirty-odd units in my building so splitting that antenna bandwidth between all of us wouldn’t amount to much. A better option (that Mesh provides) is for large buildings to get fiber connections and share bandwidth with the Mesh network at large. But that would require considerable involvement from my building management and they couldn’t care less. Given how common that is it seems like a big hurdle for the project, while corporate competitors like Starry will probably have an easier time convincing skeptical owners. Fingers crossed that as they roll out more locations more building owners will get on board.

paulcarroty 5y ago
> I live in a large apartment building and would need permission from the building owner to install anything. Kinda strange for me. Do you need a permission for router install too?
- afavour 5y ago
  I should clarify, I need permission to install anything on the roof, which is how Mesh connections are almost always made.
  - yepthatsreality 5y ago
    You don’t have to share your mesh connection with all 30 units and the equipment you install wouldn’t be able to support 30 units. Mesh also isn’t really available for Mega ultra fast connection speeds but more of a secondary connection. Having said that, the fun of mesh is having those conversations and getting others to also purchase equipment and install. Also as your neighbors and surrounding buildings add their own installs, the boxes will also wirelessly mesh together which will increase bandwidth and possibly speed. So maybe you could ask 2 of your neighbors to pitch in, which would get you the connection but also influence others to join in on your neighborhood network. Right now I bought a Ubiquiti Edge router and balance my connection so that NYC Mesh is a failover. Initially was receiving 40Mpbs download but checked again recently and now am sometimes seeing speeds of 100Mbps because the nodes in my neighborhood grew.
    - afavour 5y ago
      > You don’t have to share your mesh connection with all 30 units and the equipment you install wouldn’t be able to support 30 units. Right, and that’s the key problem with building management approval. They’re already disinterested and they’re even less interested in installing something that only benefits one apartment or maybe a couple. There’s already a specific exclusion against the likes of DirectTV satellites that only serve one apartment on the roof. So the best chance of getting approved is to go down the fiber route, but that’s a so much larger and complex solution that there’s less chance it’ll ever happen. Feels a little catch 22-ish: the small solution is too small to get approved, the large solution is too large to get approved. None of this is Mesh’s fault, it’s just that plodding real estate interests in the city always default to doing nothing if they can. (worth noting though that a number of folks in NYC live in co-op buildings where the apartment owners are the building management, I imagine the fiber option could make inroads there much more easily)
      - yepthatsreality 5y ago
        I don’t think the small solution is too small to get approved. You just need to make the right arguments. “Hey let’s install this so every apartment has free/low cost internet connection.” Isn’t the right argument. “Let’s install this so we can be apart of a growing network, then if other residents are interested they can join with their own time investment. This way people have options and a working relationship with management. If this ends up as too much work then the equipment is easily removed.” Make the argument to opt out and I think you will find that once it’s in place no one will want to put in the time to opt out because the opt-in is all benefit. I understand what you’re saying and the fiber option could be a later enhancement. I know NYC building management is sometimes difficult but my installs were fun and painless that I’m hard pressed to believe it wasn’t worth it.
      - seanp2k2 5y ago
        There’s also the problem of landlords / apartment managers signing exclusivity deals with Comcast https://www.theregister.com/2017/08/23/big_cable_apartment_exclusive_deals/ https://www.theregister.com/2017/08/23/big_cable_apartment_e...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
coolaliasbro 5y ago
I'm not familiar enough with the technology to understand the privacy implications--are operators able to identify/snoop on specific users? I'm wondering how easily a building owner or landlord could collect and leverage their residents' data for any number of nefarious reasons.
- gardnr 5y ago
  It's just like any other connection. You can think of the wifi links just replacing a cable. If NYC Mesh are linking through fibre installed at various buildings around town then yes, anyone with access to that router could snoop. In Germany, the Freifunk mesh project solved this problem by routing through VPN tunnels: https://pinneberg.freifunk.net/en/faq https://pinneberg.freifunk.net/en/faq
seanp2k2 5y ago
We need to work on changing the laws so that “they couldn’t care less” is no longer relevant. Internet access is a human right. Housing without internet access should be viewed similarly to housing without electricity or indoor plumbing.

paulcarroty 5y ago

> I live in a large apartment building and would need permission from the building owner to install anything. Kinda strange for me. Do you need a permission for router install too?

afavour 5y ago
I should clarify, I need permission to install anything on the roof, which is how Mesh connections are almost always made.
- yepthatsreality 5y ago
  You don’t have to share your mesh connection with all 30 units and the equipment you install wouldn’t be able to support 30 units. Mesh also isn’t really available for Mega ultra fast connection speeds but more of a secondary connection. Having said that, the fun of mesh is having those conversations and getting others to also purchase equipment and install. Also as your neighbors and surrounding buildings add their own installs, the boxes will also wirelessly mesh together which will increase bandwidth and possibly speed. So maybe you could ask 2 of your neighbors to pitch in, which would get you the connection but also influence others to join in on your neighborhood network. Right now I bought a Ubiquiti Edge router and balance my connection so that NYC Mesh is a failover. Initially was receiving 40Mpbs download but checked again recently and now am sometimes seeing speeds of 100Mbps because the nodes in my neighborhood grew.
  - afavour 5y ago
    > You don’t have to share your mesh connection with all 30 units and the equipment you install wouldn’t be able to support 30 units. Right, and that’s the key problem with building management approval. They’re already disinterested and they’re even less interested in installing something that only benefits one apartment or maybe a couple. There’s already a specific exclusion against the likes of DirectTV satellites that only serve one apartment on the roof. So the best chance of getting approved is to go down the fiber route, but that’s a so much larger and complex solution that there’s less chance it’ll ever happen. Feels a little catch 22-ish: the small solution is too small to get approved, the large solution is too large to get approved. None of this is Mesh’s fault, it’s just that plodding real estate interests in the city always default to doing nothing if they can. (worth noting though that a number of folks in NYC live in co-op buildings where the apartment owners are the building management, I imagine the fiber option could make inroads there much more easily)
    - yepthatsreality 5y ago
      I don’t think the small solution is too small to get approved. You just need to make the right arguments. “Hey let’s install this so every apartment has free/low cost internet connection.” Isn’t the right argument. “Let’s install this so we can be apart of a growing network, then if other residents are interested they can join with their own time investment. This way people have options and a working relationship with management. If this ends up as too much work then the equipment is easily removed.” Make the argument to opt out and I think you will find that once it’s in place no one will want to put in the time to opt out because the opt-in is all benefit. I understand what you’re saying and the fiber option could be a later enhancement. I know NYC building management is sometimes difficult but my installs were fun and painless that I’m hard pressed to believe it wasn’t worth it.
    - seanp2k2 5y ago
      There’s also the problem of landlords / apartment managers signing exclusivity deals with Comcast https://www.theregister.com/2017/08/23/big_cable_apartment_exclusive_deals/ https://www.theregister.com/2017/08/23/big_cable_apartment_e...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

coolaliasbro 5y ago

I'm not familiar enough with the technology to understand the privacy implications--are operators able to identify/snoop on specific users? I'm wondering how easily a building owner or landlord could collect and leverage their residents' data for any number of nefarious reasons.

gardnr 5y ago
It's just like any other connection. You can think of the wifi links just replacing a cable. If NYC Mesh are linking through fibre installed at various buildings around town then yes, anyone with access to that router could snoop. In Germany, the Freifunk mesh project solved this problem by routing through VPN tunnels: https://pinneberg.freifunk.net/en/faq https://pinneberg.freifunk.net/en/faq

seanp2k2 5y ago

We need to work on changing the laws so that “they couldn’t care less” is no longer relevant. Internet access is a human right. Housing without internet access should be viewed similarly to housing without electricity or indoor plumbing.