6 ms·

They're flooding the market with good, very very cheap smartphones - it's no surprise. Especially for older people that don't need $500+ flagships, a $150 Xiao

by meibo 5y ago

They're flooding the market with good, very very cheap smartphones - it's no surprise. Especially for older people that don't need $500+ flagships, a $150 Xiaomi is more than sufficient. I see them a lot nowadays. Makes me wonder if it's sustainable.

Iolaum 5y ago
Considering their data collection capabilities, I d say they are sustainable...
- _huayra_ 5y ago
  Exactly. Considering how Samsung is coming out with cheaper phones these days due to competition, I don't think it's worth completely yeeting one's privacy out the window, even if the Xiaomi models have better specs. I know Android phones are still big Google spying devices, but given the state of the tech world, I'd prefer to have Google spy on me than a shadowy Chinese company. Does it really matter if it has 4x the cameras of a cheap Samsung if it sends all the photos to some server in China on the sneak?
  - yorwba 5y ago
    Just install LineageOS on it and have nobody spy on you: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#xiaomi https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#xiaomi
    - gadf 5y ago
      Just install ANOM or Telegram Or Signal And have nobody spy on you "Trust me, I'm Italian."
    - jcynix 5y ago
      How does LineageOS stop the "little black box" which handles GSM/UTMS/etc traffic from spying on you? Or your telecom provider from tracking you? Don't get me wrong, I like these free OS versions, but while I could teach my wife, my mother in law etc to manage Netguard, I couldn't teach them to handle Lineage, f-Droid all by themselves.
      - lmm 5y ago
        > How does LineageOS stop the "little black box" which handles GSM/UTMS/etc traffic from spying on you? Is that part even made by Xiaomi?
        swiley 5y ago
        Usually its made by Qualcomm.
  - stelonix 5y ago
    It's interesting, because coming from a country that's been targeted by US interventionism in the past, I'm pretty ok with Xiaomi spying on me, not so much when it comes to Google.
    - fauigerzigerk 5y ago
      I'm not too happy about anyone spying on me, and I'm also unhappy about corporations vetoing software I want to install. Besides, one person's "targeted by interventionism" is another person's "liberated by democratic forces".
      - sdoering 5y ago
        > Besides, one person's "targeted by interventionism" is another person's "liberated by democratic forces". Does newspeaking it make it better? And if one would look at the examples of "liberation by democratic forces" over the last decades I feel that it is somewhat difficult to find an instance that wasn't a prime example of securing natural ressources or ensuring of keeping the global power structure intact. I might be naive (or even contrarian to the US policy) bbut wwere aare tthe purely humanistic examples of Uncle Sam mingling in foreign affairs? Imho the US should keep their fingers out of others' proverbial cookie jars.
        fauigerzigerk 5y ago
        >Does newspeaking it make it better? The difference in language is often just political rhetoric. The difference in substance became very clear to me talking to my grandfather who was liberated by democratic forces and would have been insulted by having that called "targeted by US interventionism". There are good reasons for both sentiments based on actual, sometimes painful, experience. We should respect that. It's a very complex and off-topic subject. That's why I'm not going into the details of the various conflicts in recent decades.
        sdoering 5y ago
        I am not denying that there are examples of democratic liberation. Especially from history. Take the Yugoslavia conflict. Intervention by an international force there was at the time probably the lesser evil. It stopped genocide (a great plus in my book) while at the same time generating hatred that created terrorism (a big minus). There are no easy answers. But most current interventions as well as many historic ones were not motivated by ulterior motives but by economic ones and questions of power. Coming from Germany and having studied history I must ask myself when did liberation turn to intervention because of political or economical gains? While keeping the rhetoric more or less the same. There is imho a difference between WW II or Yugoslavia and Kuwait. Or Irak. Or even Afghanistan. Or Serbia. Or different South American states were intervention is often less militaristic. I feel we need to have a way to differentiate and look closer to be able to discuss without falling back to ideology or "party lines".
  - AniseAbyss 5y ago
    Just slap Blokada on it. Personally I don't give a shit about privacy since I never see any advertising. What use is it if a company knows everything about me when they can't use that information to sell me things?
- jcynix 5y ago
  I'm running Netguard (app) as a firewall on them, set to block all traffic and then allow traffic only for solid apps where I need/want traffic to happen. Works like a charm, can even log in pcap format to analyze traffic.
  - RamRodification 5y ago
    Wouldn't the hardware vendor of the device be able to bypass that?
    - gnfargbl 5y ago
      From a quick look, yes they would and the NetGuard FAQ on GitHub explicitly acknowledges that: https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/blob/master/FAQ.md#user-content-faq1 https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/blob/master/FAQ.md#user-con... That doesn't mean this is a worthless thing to run. Unless you are being specifically targeted, security measures that simply put you outside the main herd can still be effective.
    - jcynix 5y ago
      Both the hardware vendor and the vendor of the mobile phone's "black box" talking to your telecom could, of course. Potentially some chips inside could do nasty things, even if you'd install LineageOS for example.
- matsemann 5y ago
  Why are the Nexus phones so expensive then? Edit: Pixels
  - grishka 5y ago
    Uh, the last Nexus phone came out in 2015? If you mean Pixels, they're targeting other market with them, they're competing with Apple. There's a cheaper "A" line (4a, 3a).
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Hokusai 5y ago
> Especially for older people that don't need $500+ flagships I am not so old, and I also have enough with a cheap smartphone. I just use mail, instant messaging, maps and government and bank apps. None of these need advanced graphics or fast CPUs. Interestingly I need access to Google Play as many official apps from the government are not available in alternative stores. Said that, I got a Xiaomi cheap tablet and I had a bad experience as it was full of ad-ware and I was not able to install Google Play. The lack of official apps in the Xiaomi app store is not really their fault, but all the ad-ware is, I suspect, why the tablet was so extremely cheap. So, good enough hardware specifications, but somewhat disappointed at the software part.
- fomine3 5y ago
  I believe they won't sell device without Google outside China. Don't buy devices for Chinese market unless you're going to modify it!
GordonS 5y ago
Never mind "older people", some Xiaomi devices have the same performance as flagships costing twice as much. I have a Xiaomi Mi 9 SE (had it almost 2 years now), and it's the best phone I've ever owned. Previously I'd owned flagship Samsungs and an iPhone 6. It's powerful, the display is excellent, the battery lasts 2 days even with plenty use (unusual these days!), the cameras are excellent, and the device itself looks great. Oh, and it cost £340 at a time when flagship equivalents were around twice that - amazing value for money. Service is great too - the phone stopped charging at some point, but it was fixed within a few days of initial contact, with no quibbling. My only gripe is the lack of a 3.5mm headphone jack, but that's hardly a unique issue.
- bamboozled 5y ago
  How can it really be that much better than a flagship iPhone? This kind of reads like your a person who hates the price of iPhones? Either that or I read like an Apple fan boy; However, I'm a pretty keen Linux / PC user and I don't think I'm that bias?
  - jules 5y ago
    A big reason why people buy iPhones is the Apple ecosystem and status signalling. A $300 Xiaomi phone also isn't as good as a flagship iPhone, but it's ~90% as good for 1/3 the price. For people who spend several hours per day on their phone, it isn't irrational to buy an iPhone. Americans spend on average 5.4 hours per day on their phone. Over two years, the savings from a Xiaomi phone come out to less than 20 cents per hour use. For these people it may well be worth the 20 cents for an hour of better phone experience. I think Samsung should be way more worried than Apple.
  - Synaesthesia 5y ago
    Note he compared it to an iPhone 6.
  - ksec 5y ago
    It is sort of like, Yes and No it depends. There are reasons why things are little bit more expensive to make. And those add up quickly. The flexible OLED panel is more than double the BOM cost of rigid OLED even at the scale of Apple. For Apple that is ~$150+ of RSP increase form a single component. It is not only just being rigid, but they are also a higher quality panel. People often only look at "spec" on the surface without actually going it into details. Add up the cost of iOS ( $10 on accounting basis or $30 for RSP ), Face ID etc you are looking at $200 RSP extra already without going into any many other differences. Of course the main thing being Apple has a gross product margin of 60% compared to Xiaomi at ~10%. ( I think they raised this to 15%+ due to operating cost being higher outside China ) It is also worth remembering. Hardware is insanely cheap. Comparatively speaking. We talk about moore's law ending because of higher cost of making chips, at the same time we keep making dozen of billions from stupid social network and ads. The number by comparison are often comical. The cost of a product are now mostly driven by software when Apple are still giving iOS update to a phone first released 6 years ago. It might also be worth noting, the entry level iPhone, iPhone SE, has faster single thread performance ( Very important due to Amdahl's law ) than the best flagship Android Phone on the market. You have to price this in somewhere.
Krasnol 5y ago
Why shouldn't it be sustainable? The market for cheap phones is much bigger than for the expensive ones and as you see from the Apple numbers: the expensive market is pretty much covered. Also covered in an separate environment form where those users are reluctant to switch because it's hard to learn again. imho I think that fighting for the low budget Android market makes much more sense than for the high price Apple audience as "Apple" has become the "I can afford it"-message of prestige this group is looking for and therefore won't be replaced by anything else. Even if you buy the most expensive Samsung, you'd have to explain how expensive it was first to your audience. There is no need with Apple. Everybody knows you've spend a lot of money on it.
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  That's not the case with refurbished ones though.
  - Krasnol 5y ago
    Or fake ones but that's not the point.
    - NicoJuicy 5y ago
      Refurbished is even sold by apple... So it is a point ..
ksec 5y ago
>Makes me wonder if it's sustainable. While there are some suspicious of doggy accounting practice and also political investment, Xiaomi is actually a company listed in HKSE 1810.HK [1] with positive cash flow and operating income. Currently valued at around ~$90B USD. Their phone are at a very low gross margin but their other products, or they call it the Xiaomi ecosystem is quite profitable. ( Comparatively Speaking ). And of course they earn most of their profits from selling Data and Ads. Which to be fair is similar to Google. ( Cough on the surface because we dont know how those Data are used Cough ) So to answer your question, it is sustainable. And they benefited most from the Huawei incident. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/1810.HK?p=1810.HK&.tsrc=fin-srch https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/1810.HK?p=1810.HK&.tsrc=fin-...
the_third_wave 5y ago
> Especially for older people that don't need $500+ flagships, a $150 Xiaomi is more than sufficient Let me rephrase that for you: Especially for people who realise they don't need $500+ flagships, a $150 Xiaomi is more than sufficient. It has nothing whatsoever to do with age, my 16yo daughter is more than satisfied with her Redmi Note 5 - she wanted one when she saw mine. Good battery life, good screen, more than fast enough and plenty of memory, 3.5mm jack, can take an SD card. Show me the "flagship" phone which offers this combination. Phones have been fast enough for years now, screens, memory and storage have been big enough. Add LineageOS and you have a device which can easily last for 6 years, longer when you change the battery. I'm using a Samsung SIIIneo from 2014 with LineageOS 17.1 (Android 10) as a second device, it receives weekly OTA updates (which I generally do not install, but still - they're there). With a new battery it lasts for 2-3 days between charges when used for audio streaming through bluetooth or the speaker.
- reactspa 5y ago
  I like that my Xiaomi Max 2 from 2017 has a 3.5mm jack, can take an SD card, AND has an infrared port (and so works as a remote for my TV and DVD player). Xiaomi, if you're listening, please continue to make at least one line of phone that has these features.
arcturus17 5y ago
If you want a sub $200 Apple product you can go down the refurb route. I’m having an outstanding experience with a refurb iPhone 8.
- bitcoinmoney 5y ago
  Where to get it somewhere with good reputation?
  - arcturus17 5y ago
    Amazon has a one-year guarantee reseller program, at least here in Europe. It consists of third-party sellers and you can further drill down to check their reputation. I’ve been lucky thus far and would’ve probably persevered even if I had gotten a lemon - I would’ve simply returned it for a new one, maybe from a different seller.
  - wenc 5y ago
    I've had good experience with: (they're a French unicorn) https://www.backmarket.com/ https://www.backmarket.com/ There are others: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/04/12/not-all-iphones-are-same-these-cost-less-are-better-earth/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/04/12/not-all...
- gajjanag 5y ago
  Seconded. I did this first with a first gen iPhone SE that I got for $100 on ebay from a seller with good reputation as a trial. Been happy enough, so I bought a like new second gen iPhone SE for $250.
siruncledrew 5y ago
Jio is doing the same gameplan in India, and that’s already proven successful as far as I can tell. I think it’s sustainable considering the vast majority of the world can’t afford an iPhone or even a Samsung, so there’s a large market. Also, once someone has a phone that can run a web browser, have a camera, and use messaging apps, then that’s basically set for this target market.
murukesh_s 5y ago
>Makes me wonder if it's sustainable. The pricing is now norm in Asia for last several years. In fact Xiaomi is not #1 in terms of quality or value for money. It's Oppo/Realme/OnePlus (all are same hardware). They do not have ads like Xiaomi and pretty much retail for the same price and ship millions of hardware. The quality is definitely higher with Oppo/Realme (budget options) having same quality as Oneplus (premium).
- machiaweliczny 5y ago
  Doesn't Oneplus have better software? Oppo is not popular in EU.
  - commoner 5y ago
    OxygenOS (OnePlus) and ColorOS (Oppo) will soon share the same codebase. https://9to5google.com/2021/07/02/oneplus-android-update-schedule-years-oxygenos-coloros/ https://9to5google.com/2021/07/02/oneplus-android-update-sch...
  - murukesh_s 5y ago
    I see, Realme/Oppo is not popular yet but is miles ahead of Xiaomi. Its almost as good as Samsung in terms of durability and much better in terms of quality of underlying components (vs value). Its pretty much a budget OnePlus.

by meibo 5y ago

Iolaum 5y ago

Considering their data collection capabilities, I d say they are sustainable...

_huayra_ 5y ago
Exactly. Considering how Samsung is coming out with cheaper phones these days due to competition, I don't think it's worth completely yeeting one's privacy out the window, even if the Xiaomi models have better specs. I know Android phones are still big Google spying devices, but given the state of the tech world, I'd prefer to have Google spy on me than a shadowy Chinese company. Does it really matter if it has 4x the cameras of a cheap Samsung if it sends all the photos to some server in China on the sneak?
- yorwba 5y ago
  Just install LineageOS on it and have nobody spy on you: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#xiaomi https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#xiaomi
  - gadf 5y ago
    Just install ANOM or Telegram Or Signal And have nobody spy on you "Trust me, I'm Italian."
  - jcynix 5y ago
    How does LineageOS stop the "little black box" which handles GSM/UTMS/etc traffic from spying on you? Or your telecom provider from tracking you? Don't get me wrong, I like these free OS versions, but while I could teach my wife, my mother in law etc to manage Netguard, I couldn't teach them to handle Lineage, f-Droid all by themselves.
    - lmm 5y ago
      > How does LineageOS stop the "little black box" which handles GSM/UTMS/etc traffic from spying on you? Is that part even made by Xiaomi?
      - swiley 5y ago
        Usually its made by Qualcomm.
- stelonix 5y ago
  It's interesting, because coming from a country that's been targeted by US interventionism in the past, I'm pretty ok with Xiaomi spying on me, not so much when it comes to Google.
  - fauigerzigerk 5y ago
    I'm not too happy about anyone spying on me, and I'm also unhappy about corporations vetoing software I want to install. Besides, one person's "targeted by interventionism" is another person's "liberated by democratic forces".
    - sdoering 5y ago
      > Besides, one person's "targeted by interventionism" is another person's "liberated by democratic forces". Does newspeaking it make it better? And if one would look at the examples of "liberation by democratic forces" over the last decades I feel that it is somewhat difficult to find an instance that wasn't a prime example of securing natural ressources or ensuring of keeping the global power structure intact. I might be naive (or even contrarian to the US policy) bbut wwere aare tthe purely humanistic examples of Uncle Sam mingling in foreign affairs? Imho the US should keep their fingers out of others' proverbial cookie jars.
      - fauigerzigerk 5y ago
        >Does newspeaking it make it better? The difference in language is often just political rhetoric. The difference in substance became very clear to me talking to my grandfather who was liberated by democratic forces and would have been insulted by having that called "targeted by US interventionism". There are good reasons for both sentiments based on actual, sometimes painful, experience. We should respect that. It's a very complex and off-topic subject. That's why I'm not going into the details of the various conflicts in recent decades.
        sdoering 5y ago
        I am not denying that there are examples of democratic liberation. Especially from history. Take the Yugoslavia conflict. Intervention by an international force there was at the time probably the lesser evil. It stopped genocide (a great plus in my book) while at the same time generating hatred that created terrorism (a big minus). There are no easy answers. But most current interventions as well as many historic ones were not motivated by ulterior motives but by economic ones and questions of power. Coming from Germany and having studied history I must ask myself when did liberation turn to intervention because of political or economical gains? While keeping the rhetoric more or less the same. There is imho a difference between WW II or Yugoslavia and Kuwait. Or Irak. Or even Afghanistan. Or Serbia. Or different South American states were intervention is often less militaristic. I feel we need to have a way to differentiate and look closer to be able to discuss without falling back to ideology or "party lines".
- AniseAbyss 5y ago
  Just slap Blokada on it. Personally I don't give a shit about privacy since I never see any advertising. What use is it if a company knows everything about me when they can't use that information to sell me things?
jcynix 5y ago
I'm running Netguard (app) as a firewall on them, set to block all traffic and then allow traffic only for solid apps where I need/want traffic to happen. Works like a charm, can even log in pcap format to analyze traffic.
- RamRodification 5y ago
  Wouldn't the hardware vendor of the device be able to bypass that?
  - gnfargbl 5y ago
    From a quick look, yes they would and the NetGuard FAQ on GitHub explicitly acknowledges that: https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/blob/master/FAQ.md#user-content-faq1 https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/blob/master/FAQ.md#user-con... That doesn't mean this is a worthless thing to run. Unless you are being specifically targeted, security measures that simply put you outside the main herd can still be effective.
  - jcynix 5y ago
    Both the hardware vendor and the vendor of the mobile phone's "black box" talking to your telecom could, of course. Potentially some chips inside could do nasty things, even if you'd install LineageOS for example.
matsemann 5y ago
Why are the Nexus phones so expensive then? Edit: Pixels
- grishka 5y ago
  Uh, the last Nexus phone came out in 2015? If you mean Pixels, they're targeting other market with them, they're competing with Apple. There's a cheaper "A" line (4a, 3a).

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Hokusai 5y ago

> Especially for older people that don't need $500+ flagships I am not so old, and I also have enough with a cheap smartphone. I just use mail, instant messaging, maps and government and bank apps. None of these need advanced graphics or fast CPUs. Interestingly I need access to Google Play as many official apps from the government are not available in alternative stores. Said that, I got a Xiaomi cheap tablet and I had a bad experience as it was full of ad-ware and I was not able to install Google Play. The lack of official apps in the Xiaomi app store is not really their fault, but all the ad-ware is, I suspect, why the tablet was so extremely cheap. So, good enough hardware specifications, but somewhat disappointed at the software part.

fomine3 5y ago
I believe they won't sell device without Google outside China. Don't buy devices for Chinese market unless you're going to modify it!

GordonS 5y ago

Never mind "older people", some Xiaomi devices have the same performance as flagships costing twice as much. I have a Xiaomi Mi 9 SE (had it almost 2 years now), and it's the best phone I've ever owned. Previously I'd owned flagship Samsungs and an iPhone 6. It's powerful, the display is excellent, the battery lasts 2 days even with plenty use (unusual these days!), the cameras are excellent, and the device itself looks great. Oh, and it cost £340 at a time when flagship equivalents were around twice that - amazing value for money. Service is great too - the phone stopped charging at some point, but it was fixed within a few days of initial contact, with no quibbling. My only gripe is the lack of a 3.5mm headphone jack, but that's hardly a unique issue.

bamboozled 5y ago
How can it really be that much better than a flagship iPhone? This kind of reads like your a person who hates the price of iPhones? Either that or I read like an Apple fan boy; However, I'm a pretty keen Linux / PC user and I don't think I'm that bias?
- jules 5y ago
  A big reason why people buy iPhones is the Apple ecosystem and status signalling. A $300 Xiaomi phone also isn't as good as a flagship iPhone, but it's ~90% as good for 1/3 the price. For people who spend several hours per day on their phone, it isn't irrational to buy an iPhone. Americans spend on average 5.4 hours per day on their phone. Over two years, the savings from a Xiaomi phone come out to less than 20 cents per hour use. For these people it may well be worth the 20 cents for an hour of better phone experience. I think Samsung should be way more worried than Apple.
- Synaesthesia 5y ago
  Note he compared it to an iPhone 6.
- ksec 5y ago
  It is sort of like, Yes and No it depends. There are reasons why things are little bit more expensive to make. And those add up quickly. The flexible OLED panel is more than double the BOM cost of rigid OLED even at the scale of Apple. For Apple that is ~$150+ of RSP increase form a single component. It is not only just being rigid, but they are also a higher quality panel. People often only look at "spec" on the surface without actually going it into details. Add up the cost of iOS ( $10 on accounting basis or $30 for RSP ), Face ID etc you are looking at $200 RSP extra already without going into any many other differences. Of course the main thing being Apple has a gross product margin of 60% compared to Xiaomi at ~10%. ( I think they raised this to 15%+ due to operating cost being higher outside China ) It is also worth remembering. Hardware is insanely cheap. Comparatively speaking. We talk about moore's law ending because of higher cost of making chips, at the same time we keep making dozen of billions from stupid social network and ads. The number by comparison are often comical. The cost of a product are now mostly driven by software when Apple are still giving iOS update to a phone first released 6 years ago. It might also be worth noting, the entry level iPhone, iPhone SE, has faster single thread performance ( Very important due to Amdahl's law ) than the best flagship Android Phone on the market. You have to price this in somewhere.

Krasnol 5y ago

Why shouldn't it be sustainable? The market for cheap phones is much bigger than for the expensive ones and as you see from the Apple numbers: the expensive market is pretty much covered. Also covered in an separate environment form where those users are reluctant to switch because it's hard to learn again. imho I think that fighting for the low budget Android market makes much more sense than for the high price Apple audience as "Apple" has become the "I can afford it"-message of prestige this group is looking for and therefore won't be replaced by anything else. Even if you buy the most expensive Samsung, you'd have to explain how expensive it was first to your audience. There is no need with Apple. Everybody knows you've spend a lot of money on it.

NicoJuicy 5y ago
That's not the case with refurbished ones though.
- Krasnol 5y ago
  Or fake ones but that's not the point.
  - NicoJuicy 5y ago
    Refurbished is even sold by apple... So it is a point ..

ksec 5y ago

>Makes me wonder if it's sustainable. While there are some suspicious of doggy accounting practice and also political investment, Xiaomi is actually a company listed in HKSE 1810.HK [1] with positive cash flow and operating income. Currently valued at around ~$90B USD. Their phone are at a very low gross margin but their other products, or they call it the Xiaomi ecosystem is quite profitable. ( Comparatively Speaking ). And of course they earn most of their profits from selling Data and Ads. Which to be fair is similar to Google. ( Cough on the surface because we dont know how those Data are used Cough ) So to answer your question, it is sustainable. And they benefited most from the Huawei incident. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/1810.HK?p=1810.HK&.tsrc=fin-srch https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/1810.HK?p=1810.HK&.tsrc=fin-...

the_third_wave 5y ago

> Especially for older people that don't need $500+ flagships, a $150 Xiaomi is more than sufficient Let me rephrase that for you: Especially for people who realise they don't need $500+ flagships, a $150 Xiaomi is more than sufficient. It has nothing whatsoever to do with age, my 16yo daughter is more than satisfied with her Redmi Note 5 - she wanted one when she saw mine. Good battery life, good screen, more than fast enough and plenty of memory, 3.5mm jack, can take an SD card. Show me the "flagship" phone which offers this combination. Phones have been fast enough for years now, screens, memory and storage have been big enough. Add LineageOS and you have a device which can easily last for 6 years, longer when you change the battery. I'm using a Samsung SIIIneo from 2014 with LineageOS 17.1 (Android 10) as a second device, it receives weekly OTA updates (which I generally do not install, but still - they're there). With a new battery it lasts for 2-3 days between charges when used for audio streaming through bluetooth or the speaker.

reactspa 5y ago
I like that my Xiaomi Max 2 from 2017 has a 3.5mm jack, can take an SD card, AND has an infrared port (and so works as a remote for my TV and DVD player). Xiaomi, if you're listening, please continue to make at least one line of phone that has these features.

arcturus17 5y ago

If you want a sub $200 Apple product you can go down the refurb route. I’m having an outstanding experience with a refurb iPhone 8.

bitcoinmoney 5y ago
Where to get it somewhere with good reputation?
- arcturus17 5y ago
  Amazon has a one-year guarantee reseller program, at least here in Europe. It consists of third-party sellers and you can further drill down to check their reputation. I’ve been lucky thus far and would’ve probably persevered even if I had gotten a lemon - I would’ve simply returned it for a new one, maybe from a different seller.
- wenc 5y ago
  I've had good experience with: (they're a French unicorn) https://www.backmarket.com/ https://www.backmarket.com/ There are others: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/04/12/not-all-iphones-are-same-these-cost-less-are-better-earth/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/04/12/not-all...
gajjanag 5y ago
Seconded. I did this first with a first gen iPhone SE that I got for $100 on ebay from a seller with good reputation as a trial. Been happy enough, so I bought a like new second gen iPhone SE for $250.

siruncledrew 5y ago

Jio is doing the same gameplan in India, and that’s already proven successful as far as I can tell. I think it’s sustainable considering the vast majority of the world can’t afford an iPhone or even a Samsung, so there’s a large market. Also, once someone has a phone that can run a web browser, have a camera, and use messaging apps, then that’s basically set for this target market.

murukesh_s 5y ago

>Makes me wonder if it's sustainable. The pricing is now norm in Asia for last several years. In fact Xiaomi is not #1 in terms of quality or value for money. It's Oppo/Realme/OnePlus (all are same hardware). They do not have ads like Xiaomi and pretty much retail for the same price and ship millions of hardware. The quality is definitely higher with Oppo/Realme (budget options) having same quality as Oneplus (premium).

machiaweliczny 5y ago
Doesn't Oneplus have better software? Oppo is not popular in EU.
- commoner 5y ago
  OxygenOS (OnePlus) and ColorOS (Oppo) will soon share the same codebase. https://9to5google.com/2021/07/02/oneplus-android-update-schedule-years-oxygenos-coloros/ https://9to5google.com/2021/07/02/oneplus-android-update-sch...
- murukesh_s 5y ago
  I see, Realme/Oppo is not popular yet but is miles ahead of Xiaomi. Its almost as good as Samsung in terms of durability and much better in terms of quality of underlying components (vs value). Its pretty much a budget OnePlus.