5 ms·

I'm not really buying the FAQ explanation, idk this feels too good to be true. Would have loved to see some core team discussion on this if there was one.

FooBarWidget 5y ago
Author of Fullstaq Ruby here. There have been discussions. Discussions on jemalloc integration preceded Fullstaq Ruby for years. The bug tracker issue on the malloc_trim patch went stale. All this can be found on the issue tracker. I also spoke to Matz during EuRuKo 2019. And this is the impression I got.
- joelbluminator 5y ago
  Are you referring to this one? https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/15667 https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/15667 P.S did Discourse adopt this approach ? Also found a discussion on jemalloc https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14718 https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14718
  - FooBarWidget 5y ago
    Yes
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - throwdbaaway 5y ago
    My observations after reading https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14718 https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14718: - Shyouhei Urabe did a marvelous job of resisting pressure from several well-known developers representing multiple high profile ruby companies/projects. - Everyone eventually came to their senses in https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14718#note-89 https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14718#note-89, and concluded that the best way forward is to use glibc with MALLOC_ARENA_MAX=2. My personal feeling is that while the "Jemalloc FTW" section in http://oldblog.antirez.com/post/everything-about-redis-24.html http://oldblog.antirez.com/post/everything-about-redis-24.ht... might have been correct back in the jemalloc 3.x days, a lot has changed on both jemalloc and glibc since then. Furthermore, there is also musl in the equation these days.
    - joelbluminator 5y ago
      I tend to be skeptical as well. Why isn't Shopify / Github / Heroku adopting this? I'd stay away.
      - FooBarWidget 5y ago
        Many of them are adopting Jemalloc, but they do the Jemalloc integration work themselves because they have the engineering talent and capacity. Fullstaq Ruby is for everybody else: those who can't, don't want to, or can't be bothered to do it themselves. It's for the masses.
        strzibny 5y ago
        You don't need special talent to do that. I actually have a mention of this in my book on deploying Rails (https://deploymentfromscratch.com/ https://deploymentfromscratch.com/). Here's a one liner with ruby-install: $ sudo dnf install -y jemalloc-devel $ ruby-install 3.0.0 -- --with-jemalloc Then check you have it: $ ruby -r rbconfig -e "puts RbConfig::CONFIG['LIBS']" ... -ljemalloc
        FooBarWidget 5y ago
        It's 2021. Installing from source is no longer a low-friction, non-scary, default thing to do or something that people want to bother with. Users now expect binaries and proper package management. Furthermore, it's not just "dnf install jemalloc-devel". The Jemalloc version matters a lot. For reasons that are not yet clear, significant memory savings are only achieved with Jemalloc 3, not with Jemalloc 5. And your distribution only ships 1 Jemalloc version. So likely you need to compile Jemalloc 3 yourself. But Jemalloc 3 no longer compiles by default on some modern distributions, such as Debian 10. Fullstaq Ruby fixes this by patching Jemalloc: https://github.com/fullstaq-labs/fullstaq-ruby-server-edition/blob/main/resources/jemalloc_cxx_fix.patch https://github.com/fullstaq-labs/fullstaq-ruby-server-editio... Another caveat is that LD_PRELOADing Jemalloc is more effective than compiling with --with-jemalloc. Furthermore, installing Ruby is one thing. Keeping it security-patched without having to constantly monitor things, is a whole other can of worms. Here's where Fullstaq Ruby's second value proposition comes in: we supply DEB/RPMs and do the tiny version patching for you, you don't have to go through the whole compilation process and gem migration process every time there's a new Ruby tiny version. See also this FAQ entry, "Fullstaq Ruby vs LD_PRELOADing Jemalloc yourself": https://github.com/fullstaq-labs/fullstaq-ruby-server-edition#vs-ld_preloading-jemalloc-yourself https://github.com/fullstaq-labs/fullstaq-ruby-server-editio...
rurban 5y ago
Everybody can do it by themselves. Using jemalloc is trivial. Adding the malloc_trim() call to the full GC is trivial. The patches are open. Why MRI ruby likes to keep unused memory pages around is only, that they don't like to add that compile-time option and probe for jemalloc. It's too trivial to worry
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  Here I explain why it can quickly become not so trivial: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27872696 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27872696

FooBarWidget 5y ago

Author of Fullstaq Ruby here. There have been discussions. Discussions on jemalloc integration preceded Fullstaq Ruby for years. The bug tracker issue on the malloc_trim patch went stale. All this can be found on the issue tracker. I also spoke to Matz during EuRuKo 2019. And this is the impression I got.

joelbluminator 5y ago
Are you referring to this one? https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/15667 https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/15667 P.S did Discourse adopt this approach ? Also found a discussion on jemalloc https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14718 https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14718
- FooBarWidget 5y ago
  Yes
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- throwdbaaway 5y ago
  My observations after reading https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14718 https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14718: - Shyouhei Urabe did a marvelous job of resisting pressure from several well-known developers representing multiple high profile ruby companies/projects. - Everyone eventually came to their senses in https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14718#note-89 https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/14718#note-89, and concluded that the best way forward is to use glibc with MALLOC_ARENA_MAX=2. My personal feeling is that while the "Jemalloc FTW" section in http://oldblog.antirez.com/post/everything-about-redis-24.html http://oldblog.antirez.com/post/everything-about-redis-24.ht... might have been correct back in the jemalloc 3.x days, a lot has changed on both jemalloc and glibc since then. Furthermore, there is also musl in the equation these days.
  - joelbluminator 5y ago
    I tend to be skeptical as well. Why isn't Shopify / Github / Heroku adopting this? I'd stay away.
    - FooBarWidget 5y ago
      Many of them are adopting Jemalloc, but they do the Jemalloc integration work themselves because they have the engineering talent and capacity. Fullstaq Ruby is for everybody else: those who can't, don't want to, or can't be bothered to do it themselves. It's for the masses.
      - strzibny 5y ago
        You don't need special talent to do that. I actually have a mention of this in my book on deploying Rails (https://deploymentfromscratch.com/ https://deploymentfromscratch.com/). Here's a one liner with ruby-install: $ sudo dnf install -y jemalloc-devel $ ruby-install 3.0.0 -- --with-jemalloc Then check you have it: $ ruby -r rbconfig -e "puts RbConfig::CONFIG['LIBS']" ... -ljemalloc
        FooBarWidget 5y ago
        It's 2021. Installing from source is no longer a low-friction, non-scary, default thing to do or something that people want to bother with. Users now expect binaries and proper package management. Furthermore, it's not just "dnf install jemalloc-devel". The Jemalloc version matters a lot. For reasons that are not yet clear, significant memory savings are only achieved with Jemalloc 3, not with Jemalloc 5. And your distribution only ships 1 Jemalloc version. So likely you need to compile Jemalloc 3 yourself. But Jemalloc 3 no longer compiles by default on some modern distributions, such as Debian 10. Fullstaq Ruby fixes this by patching Jemalloc: https://github.com/fullstaq-labs/fullstaq-ruby-server-edition/blob/main/resources/jemalloc_cxx_fix.patch https://github.com/fullstaq-labs/fullstaq-ruby-server-editio... Another caveat is that LD_PRELOADing Jemalloc is more effective than compiling with --with-jemalloc. Furthermore, installing Ruby is one thing. Keeping it security-patched without having to constantly monitor things, is a whole other can of worms. Here's where Fullstaq Ruby's second value proposition comes in: we supply DEB/RPMs and do the tiny version patching for you, you don't have to go through the whole compilation process and gem migration process every time there's a new Ruby tiny version. See also this FAQ entry, "Fullstaq Ruby vs LD_PRELOADing Jemalloc yourself": https://github.com/fullstaq-labs/fullstaq-ruby-server-edition#vs-ld_preloading-jemalloc-yourself https://github.com/fullstaq-labs/fullstaq-ruby-server-editio...

rurban 5y ago

Everybody can do it by themselves. Using jemalloc is trivial. Adding the malloc_trim() call to the full GC is trivial. The patches are open. Why MRI ruby likes to keep unused memory pages around is only, that they don't like to add that compile-time option and probe for jemalloc. It's too trivial to worry

FooBarWidget 5y ago
Here I explain why it can quickly become not so trivial: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27872696 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27872696