4 ms·

It's legal because the workers welcomed it. At first. This is one single factory in the entire United States, and it is news because it is so far out of the o

by OldHand2018 5y ago

It's legal because the workers welcomed it. At first. This is one single factory in the entire United States, and it is news because it is so far out of the ordinary. I grew up around a lot of steel mills in the middle of America. What happens is this: Demand increases rapidly but nobody expects it to last. So they go to the union and work out a deal for increased working hours at a higher salary. Everybody, and I really mean everybody, is happy. Because nobody expects the conditions to last long. The workers see the opportunity to buy a boat or a truck with cash from all the extra work they put in, and the thought of it makes them excited to do all the extra shifts. But then towards the "end" the excitement wears off and they can't wait for the extra work to end. And it does. Except for this factory.

msrenee 5y ago
Is it out of the ordinary? We're working minimum 50 hours a week and being told that it's only out of the goodness of the supervisor's heart that we've got any time off. Even at above-average pay for the area, they can't get new bodies in the door and experienced workers are leaving. It's been the same story everywhere I've worked. I'm sticking at this company because the pay is good, but I've been on overtime since shortly after I started here and this is the slow season right now.
etempleton 5y ago
I would not say it is completely outside of the ordinary for factory work. It is an extreme, but forced over time is a pretty common problem in warehouses and factories in the US. Typically that comes with a 1.5X pay increase for overtime hours worked, but working 60-80 hours a week or more is physically and psychologically draining, especially when the factories and warehouses are not air conditioned and the temperature inside hits 100-120 degrees during the summer. Employees tolerate it because it can double their annual salary buying a better life for their families. It just comes at a huge personal cost. In this specific instance the 80 hour work weeks are simply not sustainable and I have to imagine that management will want to end the practice as soon as possible. I did not see mention of 1.5X pay in the article, but unless Kansas has very lax labor laws that would be the norm. If 80 hour work weeks are common it is costing them to not hire new workers.
- pauljurczak 5y ago
  > unless Kansas has very lax labor laws Kansas does have lax labor laws. I went to check and according to https://www.dol.ks.gov/laws-faqs https://www.dol.ks.gov/laws-faqs: "State law says that overtime is due once an employee has worked 46 hours within a week. Federal law says that overtime is due once an employee has worked 40 hours within a week." So it is substandard, and this: "Breaks are not required under state or federal law."
- labawi 5y ago
  > 1.5x rate is costing them 1.5x of what base? Those people aren't working 80h because they like the pay. They need the money. Not necessarily all of it, but are dependent on the job. haven't had a pay raise in 10y. It would be cheaper to hire more workers, if they could get any to work for the same pay. They likely can't, so it would be more expensive to raise the pay. As it is, in the short term, it could be dangerous to let people have time to think. Conditions call for a strike. Don't know what took them so long.
Glawen 5y ago
The same law has been passed in France where a union's deal can bypass the law (totally crazy idea to be honest). And these deals happen exactly like you described, except that workers are threatened by factory closure. For example it happened for the Smart car factory, they accepted to work more hours for the same pay, with the promise to get investments. Well now the factory is closing and they are pissed off to have granted free work to their employer (mercedes Benz)
- GuB-42 5y ago
  Yes, but it is not without limits. The hard limit is (supposed) to be 48h/week down to 44h/week after 12 weeks, including overtime. And even if employees and unions want to work more, legally, they can't. It can go up to 60h/week in exceptional situations. Notably, it happened during the pandemic for some essential workers. In the article, that's 84h/week. For the Smart car factory scandal, the work week was 39 hours, which is more than the official 35, but well within the limit and perfectly legal. The problem is that it should have been paid overtime, but it wasn't, which technically meant it was a wage reduction. There are still some people in France who do absurd work hours, but not factory workers. Among them are medical interns (that's illegal but still done), self-employed people, and some high level employees who don't work on the clock.

msrenee 5y ago

Is it out of the ordinary? We're working minimum 50 hours a week and being told that it's only out of the goodness of the supervisor's heart that we've got any time off. Even at above-average pay for the area, they can't get new bodies in the door and experienced workers are leaving. It's been the same story everywhere I've worked. I'm sticking at this company because the pay is good, but I've been on overtime since shortly after I started here and this is the slow season right now.

etempleton 5y ago

I would not say it is completely outside of the ordinary for factory work. It is an extreme, but forced over time is a pretty common problem in warehouses and factories in the US. Typically that comes with a 1.5X pay increase for overtime hours worked, but working 60-80 hours a week or more is physically and psychologically draining, especially when the factories and warehouses are not air conditioned and the temperature inside hits 100-120 degrees during the summer. Employees tolerate it because it can double their annual salary buying a better life for their families. It just comes at a huge personal cost. In this specific instance the 80 hour work weeks are simply not sustainable and I have to imagine that management will want to end the practice as soon as possible. I did not see mention of 1.5X pay in the article, but unless Kansas has very lax labor laws that would be the norm. If 80 hour work weeks are common it is costing them to not hire new workers.

pauljurczak 5y ago
> unless Kansas has very lax labor laws Kansas does have lax labor laws. I went to check and according to https://www.dol.ks.gov/laws-faqs https://www.dol.ks.gov/laws-faqs: "State law says that overtime is due once an employee has worked 46 hours within a week. Federal law says that overtime is due once an employee has worked 40 hours within a week." So it is substandard, and this: "Breaks are not required under state or federal law."
labawi 5y ago
> 1.5x rate is costing them 1.5x of what base? Those people aren't working 80h because they like the pay. They need the money. Not necessarily all of it, but are dependent on the job. haven't had a pay raise in 10y. It would be cheaper to hire more workers, if they could get any to work for the same pay. They likely can't, so it would be more expensive to raise the pay. As it is, in the short term, it could be dangerous to let people have time to think. Conditions call for a strike. Don't know what took them so long.

Glawen 5y ago

The same law has been passed in France where a union's deal can bypass the law (totally crazy idea to be honest). And these deals happen exactly like you described, except that workers are threatened by factory closure. For example it happened for the Smart car factory, they accepted to work more hours for the same pay, with the promise to get investments. Well now the factory is closing and they are pissed off to have granted free work to their employer (mercedes Benz)

GuB-42 5y ago
Yes, but it is not without limits. The hard limit is (supposed) to be 48h/week down to 44h/week after 12 weeks, including overtime. And even if employees and unions want to work more, legally, they can't. It can go up to 60h/week in exceptional situations. Notably, it happened during the pandemic for some essential workers. In the article, that's 84h/week. For the Smart car factory scandal, the work week was 39 hours, which is more than the official 35, but well within the limit and perfectly legal. The problem is that it should have been paid overtime, but it wasn't, which technically meant it was a wage reduction. There are still some people in France who do absurd work hours, but not factory workers. Among them are medical interns (that's illegal but still done), self-employed people, and some high level employees who don't work on the clock.