4 ms·

Is ethical to not disclose in this comment that you work for Google? 1% of the posters here at most will check that and the rest will assume you are an impartia

Is ethical to not disclose in this comment that you work for Google? 1% of the posters here at most will check that and the rest will assume you are an impartial observer.

judge2020 5y ago
I feel like it's not absolutely necessary, but it would be courteous to do so. Working in the pixel machine learning division (what I infer from 'computational photography for next-gen devices') likely means they have very little exposure, if at all, to the kool aid available to the Google Ads or YouTube teams.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  Being paid good sums of money by Google will certainly drive a positive bias towards whatever the company does. In publications you typically describe conflicts of interests you know, you might as well do it here too whenever you give an opinion if you have a stake in the company people are commenting about.
  - mgraczyk 5y ago
    Should people who have never worked on ads or with user data in any significant capacity have to disclose that too? "I want to say that Google is unethical and ads are evil, but I've never actually worked on ads and actually don't know what data means in this context"
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      It does not matter whether you worked on ads or not. The fact that you have many friends at Google and spent years there has already shaped you as an employee to believe that whatever Google does is "probably not evil". This is not specific to working at Google, by the way, we all rationalize what our workplace(s) does.
      - mgraczyk 5y ago
        I've been at Google for ~5 months and can comfortably say I have no friends here who I didn't know before joining. Is it really so hard to believe that some people don't agree with you on this point because they've seen different evidence than you have?
        ekianjo 5y ago
        5 months? your resume is saying you also worked there between 2014 and 2016.
    - killingtime74 5y ago
      Only engineers can think about ethics? What about philosophers, ethicists and lawyers? How about law makers?
      - mgraczyk 5y ago
        I'm okay with anyone thinking about ethics, as long as they don't call themselves an "ethicist" :P I'm just pointing out that we all have our biases. As somebody who understands how targeted advertising works from the "inside" I see a lot of commentary that is factually inaccurate and conceptually off base.
        ds206 5y ago
        Go on... I'm listening ;) Do you think the fact that no one on the "outside" knows how it works may be the reason for that? Also, do you think that if we did know how it works from the inside that we would agree with you?
    - threatofrain 5y ago
      Not working on ads isn't a conflict of interest — there's no metaphorical paycheck for dodging Google. As you point out, it could predict more ignorance, but it doesn't predict financial incentives flowing to their direction. Also, would you morally expect your doctor to disclose that they're on the payroll of the company that develops the medications you've been prescribed to take? Regardless of the answer, disclosure here isn't about whether or not a doctor is capable of their own opinion, or whether or not they are speaking in any official capacity for other companies. Ethical appearance is part of professional ethics. Similarly, it doesn't matter if a judge is capable of independent opinion while having financial interests tied to the cases they preside over. The mere appearance of financial entanglement can stink up professional credibility. It would also be quite silly for a judge to respond with, "But I've only recently been receiving paychecks. I hardly know anyone at the company."
  - oh_sigh 5y ago
    > Being paid good sums of money by Google will certainly drive a positive bias towards whatever the company does Any evidence for this claim, besides for your gut? How do you explain all of the googlers who have resigned over Project X/Y/Z, or how Google handles sexual allegations, or who they do business with?
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      What do you mean ? You mean evidence taht someone giving you money influences your perception of them ? Are you seriously asking the question ?
mgraczyk 5y ago
Well fortunately you and other commenters have handled that for me :) I don't work on ads or Youtube, and you have cause and effect reversed actually. It's not that I'm okay with ads because I work at Google. I was ok with ads long before I worked there. I work at Google because I'm ok with ads. :)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Self-selection bias remains a bias.

Is ethical to not disclose in this comment that you work for Google? 1% of the posters here at most will check that and the rest will assume you are an impartial observer.

judge2020 5y ago

I feel like it's not absolutely necessary, but it would be courteous to do so. Working in the pixel machine learning division (what I infer from 'computational photography for next-gen devices') likely means they have very little exposure, if at all, to the kool aid available to the Google Ads or YouTube teams.

ekianjo 5y ago
Being paid good sums of money by Google will certainly drive a positive bias towards whatever the company does. In publications you typically describe conflicts of interests you know, you might as well do it here too whenever you give an opinion if you have a stake in the company people are commenting about.
- mgraczyk 5y ago
  Should people who have never worked on ads or with user data in any significant capacity have to disclose that too? "I want to say that Google is unethical and ads are evil, but I've never actually worked on ads and actually don't know what data means in this context"
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    It does not matter whether you worked on ads or not. The fact that you have many friends at Google and spent years there has already shaped you as an employee to believe that whatever Google does is "probably not evil". This is not specific to working at Google, by the way, we all rationalize what our workplace(s) does.
    - mgraczyk 5y ago
      I've been at Google for ~5 months and can comfortably say I have no friends here who I didn't know before joining. Is it really so hard to believe that some people don't agree with you on this point because they've seen different evidence than you have?
      - ekianjo 5y ago
        5 months? your resume is saying you also worked there between 2014 and 2016.
  - killingtime74 5y ago
    Only engineers can think about ethics? What about philosophers, ethicists and lawyers? How about law makers?
    - mgraczyk 5y ago
      I'm okay with anyone thinking about ethics, as long as they don't call themselves an "ethicist" :P I'm just pointing out that we all have our biases. As somebody who understands how targeted advertising works from the "inside" I see a lot of commentary that is factually inaccurate and conceptually off base.
      - ds206 5y ago
        Go on... I'm listening ;) Do you think the fact that no one on the "outside" knows how it works may be the reason for that? Also, do you think that if we did know how it works from the inside that we would agree with you?
  - threatofrain 5y ago
    Not working on ads isn't a conflict of interest — there's no metaphorical paycheck for dodging Google. As you point out, it could predict more ignorance, but it doesn't predict financial incentives flowing to their direction. Also, would you morally expect your doctor to disclose that they're on the payroll of the company that develops the medications you've been prescribed to take? Regardless of the answer, disclosure here isn't about whether or not a doctor is capable of their own opinion, or whether or not they are speaking in any official capacity for other companies. Ethical appearance is part of professional ethics. Similarly, it doesn't matter if a judge is capable of independent opinion while having financial interests tied to the cases they preside over. The mere appearance of financial entanglement can stink up professional credibility. It would also be quite silly for a judge to respond with, "But I've only recently been receiving paychecks. I hardly know anyone at the company."
- oh_sigh 5y ago
  > Being paid good sums of money by Google will certainly drive a positive bias towards whatever the company does Any evidence for this claim, besides for your gut? How do you explain all of the googlers who have resigned over Project X/Y/Z, or how Google handles sexual allegations, or who they do business with?
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    What do you mean ? You mean evidence taht someone giving you money influences your perception of them ? Are you seriously asking the question ?

mgraczyk 5y ago

Well fortunately you and other commenters have handled that for me :) I don't work on ads or Youtube, and you have cause and effect reversed actually. It's not that I'm okay with ads because I work at Google. I was ok with ads long before I worked there. I work at Google because I'm ok with ads. :)

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dredmorbius 5y ago
Self-selection bias remains a bias.