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Seems odd that someone would weigh in with such an aggressive counterpoint in defence of Google on their own volition… I’m always suspect of comments like these

by n_io 5y ago

Seems odd that someone would weigh in with such an aggressive counterpoint in defence of Google on their own volition… I’m always suspect of comments like these coming from said company’s PR team. I mean really, “Further I think products like this are actually unethical”? Did you really just jump to the defence of a near 2 trillion dollar company whose business model overtly threatens some of our most fundamental human rights?

ekianjo 5y ago
> I’m always suspect of comments like these coming from said company’s PR team. Don't rule out the possibility of "useful idiots" (not my expression - this describes people who are brainwashed to believe some company's PR and parrot that point of view for free)
- mgraczyk 5y ago
  Trust me, I'm pretty much the furthest thing from brainwashed a Googler can be. In fact you'd probably be surprised to learn that officially and unofficially, Google agrees with you much more than with me. My personal opinion is that other companies are much better at ads personalization, and Google is much better at building powerful technology that uses a shitload of compute and TPU, so long term Google wants a world with FLOC or similar, and essentially no individual tracking.
  - brynjolf 5y ago
    > Trust me, I'm pretty much the furthest thing from brainwashed a Googler can be. Why do you type like an AI then?
    - methyl 5y ago
      Because he’s not a native English speaker.
kinjba11 5y ago
Please tell us how Google "overtly threatens some of our most fundamental human rights" by providing free services? Just saying Google is evil doesn't make a good argument.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  As a starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Google https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Google There are numerous current (and past) legal cases against Google, including numerous antitrust / anticompetitive cases. Several of those hinge on influence and manipulation through that chief organ of a democratic society, media. Google's role, and YouTube's specifically, in radicalisation, is rather well documented. "How YouTube Built a Radicalization Machine for the Far-Right" (2018) It's a target-rich search: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+youtube+radicalizes&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+youtube+radicalizes&ia=web https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-youtube-pulled-these-men-down-a-vortex-of-far-right-hate https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-youtube-pulled-these-men-d...
mgraczyk 5y ago
Yes, because I think the general content of discussion around this subject is one sided, and I want to give voice to what I consider to be a more centered point of view. For example, in your comment you take for granted that Google "overtly threatens some of our most fundamental human rights". I could imagine reasonable arguments that Google does some harm in some cases, and it would even be defensible to claim that Google does more harm than good for some groups of people (although I disagree). But the position you take as a given seems extreme to me and conflicts strongly with my conception of "human rights" and "overt".
oh_sigh 5y ago
You think that Google HR recruits random engineers to astroturf on HN?
- ergot_vacation 5y ago
  It would seem they don't need to.

by n_io 5y ago

ekianjo 5y ago

> I’m always suspect of comments like these coming from said company’s PR team. Don't rule out the possibility of "useful idiots" (not my expression - this describes people who are brainwashed to believe some company's PR and parrot that point of view for free)

mgraczyk 5y ago
Trust me, I'm pretty much the furthest thing from brainwashed a Googler can be. In fact you'd probably be surprised to learn that officially and unofficially, Google agrees with you much more than with me. My personal opinion is that other companies are much better at ads personalization, and Google is much better at building powerful technology that uses a shitload of compute and TPU, so long term Google wants a world with FLOC or similar, and essentially no individual tracking.
- brynjolf 5y ago
  > Trust me, I'm pretty much the furthest thing from brainwashed a Googler can be. Why do you type like an AI then?
  - methyl 5y ago
    Because he’s not a native English speaker.

kinjba11 5y ago

Please tell us how Google "overtly threatens some of our most fundamental human rights" by providing free services? Just saying Google is evil doesn't make a good argument.

dredmorbius 5y ago
As a starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Google https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Google There are numerous current (and past) legal cases against Google, including numerous antitrust / anticompetitive cases. Several of those hinge on influence and manipulation through that chief organ of a democratic society, media. Google's role, and YouTube's specifically, in radicalisation, is rather well documented. "How YouTube Built a Radicalization Machine for the Far-Right" (2018) It's a target-rich search: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+youtube+radicalizes&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+youtube+radicalizes&ia=web https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-youtube-pulled-these-men-down-a-vortex-of-far-right-hate https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-youtube-pulled-these-men-d...

mgraczyk 5y ago

Yes, because I think the general content of discussion around this subject is one sided, and I want to give voice to what I consider to be a more centered point of view. For example, in your comment you take for granted that Google "overtly threatens some of our most fundamental human rights". I could imagine reasonable arguments that Google does some harm in some cases, and it would even be defensible to claim that Google does more harm than good for some groups of people (although I disagree). But the position you take as a given seems extreme to me and conflicts strongly with my conception of "human rights" and "overt".

oh_sigh 5y ago

You think that Google HR recruits random engineers to astroturf on HN?

ergot_vacation 5y ago
It would seem they don't need to.