4 ms·

Ranked-Choice Voting Helped Wreck Minneapolis

12 points by jkuria 5y ago

JoeyBananas 5y ago
This article is 100% right
Tostino 5y ago
Well the article is behind a paywall, but what I could read of it seem to be pretty trash.
rspeele 5y ago
I can't read the whole article due to a paywall. But I would be curious to know how the author addresses that the winner of the mayoral election was also the FPTP winner. > The victor in that 16-way race was Jacob Frey, who prevailed after six rounds of counting that took 24 hours to complete. He became mayor despite being the first choice of only 25% of voters. Looks like even though he was only 25% of voters first choice, that's still a plurality. He was the first-round winner too[0]. So what difference did RCV make? [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Minneapolis_mayoral_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Minneapolis_mayoral_elect...
jl2718 5y ago
This article has approximately nothing to do with ranked-choice voting. But about that… I’ll consider criticisms of how to use the vote count only after the vote count can be formally proven.
killingtime74 5y ago
Works pretty well for entire countries like Australia. Pretty arrogant to blame the vote counting system
BooneJS 5y ago
For those without a WSJ subscription, it’s an opinion piece authored by Vin Weber, former congressman (R-MN) and lobbyist who worked with Paul Manafort in Ukraine, and Annette Meeks, current CEO of the Freedom Foundation of Minnesota, a conservative/libertarian small government think tank. Mr. Weber also works there now. TL;DR: RCV brought Minneapolis weak leadership partly because it failed in its promise to increase voter turnout and improve the tone of campaigns. Minneapolis has had 3 RCV mayoral elections, and it mentions NYC also, but the majority of the piece offers pretty standard lines about how city is run by a politically correct mob and has no direction. I wish the RCV part provided more data to back up its role in the current situation, but the authors seem more upset that it elected a Democrat.
- jfengel 5y ago
  HN had a Wall Street Journal article against RCV the other day, and I commented that I hadn't realized that it was a partisan issue. I'll be interested in keeping an eye on this. I have the impression that (a) HN is very much in favor of RCV and other voting systems, and (b) HN skews somewhat to the right. (I'm much less certain about b, and I'm trying really hard to take into account the way you see opposing voices as much louder than those of your supporters.) It will be interesting to see this shifts the balance of opinion on HN. (I'll not that I'm not especially a fan of alternative voting systems, on the grounds that I don't think they'll make as big of a difference as people hope. I'm all for them if people think it will reflect their preferences more accurately, but I believe they'll be disappointed.)
macawfish 5y ago
The author is way out of touch. Jacob Frey actually embodies a lot of the ruthless values the author implicitly calls for, and it's not good. If anything, ranked choice has been best for electing moderate centrists who know how to pretend they're progressive but cling to fascism when the stakes are high. The city leadership have failed on housing and failed on police violence, and if anything it's because they act too much like the author of this article wants his politicians to act. The "days of old" politicians he hearkens for? Unfortunately they're the ones who let the shit fester for so long in terms of racial and socioeconomic inequities. The city officials have long attempted to emulate Chicago in an attempt to "put Minneapolis on the map", which has had the effect of exacerbating racial and socioeconomic inequality. We do have a political problem in Minnesota, and that problem is a kind of ruthless punity that hides behind a veneer of "niceness" and "common sense". Except that our leaders are too often more focused on wooing high-dollar tax payers then they are on taking care of the people who make the city happen in the first place, the workers and families who live there.

12 points by jkuria 5y ago

JoeyBananas 5y ago

This article is 100% right

Tostino 5y ago

Well the article is behind a paywall, but what I could read of it seem to be pretty trash.

rspeele 5y ago

I can't read the whole article due to a paywall. But I would be curious to know how the author addresses that the winner of the mayoral election was also the FPTP winner. > The victor in that 16-way race was Jacob Frey, who prevailed after six rounds of counting that took 24 hours to complete. He became mayor despite being the first choice of only 25% of voters. Looks like even though he was only 25% of voters first choice, that's still a plurality. He was the first-round winner too[0]. So what difference did RCV make? [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Minneapolis_mayoral_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Minneapolis_mayoral_elect...

jl2718 5y ago

This article has approximately nothing to do with ranked-choice voting. But about that… I’ll consider criticisms of how to use the vote count only after the vote count can be formally proven.

killingtime74 5y ago

Works pretty well for entire countries like Australia. Pretty arrogant to blame the vote counting system

BooneJS 5y ago

For those without a WSJ subscription, it’s an opinion piece authored by Vin Weber, former congressman (R-MN) and lobbyist who worked with Paul Manafort in Ukraine, and Annette Meeks, current CEO of the Freedom Foundation of Minnesota, a conservative/libertarian small government think tank. Mr. Weber also works there now. TL;DR: RCV brought Minneapolis weak leadership partly because it failed in its promise to increase voter turnout and improve the tone of campaigns. Minneapolis has had 3 RCV mayoral elections, and it mentions NYC also, but the majority of the piece offers pretty standard lines about how city is run by a politically correct mob and has no direction. I wish the RCV part provided more data to back up its role in the current situation, but the authors seem more upset that it elected a Democrat.

jfengel 5y ago
HN had a Wall Street Journal article against RCV the other day, and I commented that I hadn't realized that it was a partisan issue. I'll be interested in keeping an eye on this. I have the impression that (a) HN is very much in favor of RCV and other voting systems, and (b) HN skews somewhat to the right. (I'm much less certain about b, and I'm trying really hard to take into account the way you see opposing voices as much louder than those of your supporters.) It will be interesting to see this shifts the balance of opinion on HN. (I'll not that I'm not especially a fan of alternative voting systems, on the grounds that I don't think they'll make as big of a difference as people hope. I'm all for them if people think it will reflect their preferences more accurately, but I believe they'll be disappointed.)

macawfish 5y ago

The author is way out of touch. Jacob Frey actually embodies a lot of the ruthless values the author implicitly calls for, and it's not good. If anything, ranked choice has been best for electing moderate centrists who know how to pretend they're progressive but cling to fascism when the stakes are high. The city leadership have failed on housing and failed on police violence, and if anything it's because they act too much like the author of this article wants his politicians to act. The "days of old" politicians he hearkens for? Unfortunately they're the ones who let the shit fester for so long in terms of racial and socioeconomic inequities. The city officials have long attempted to emulate Chicago in an attempt to "put Minneapolis on the map", which has had the effect of exacerbating racial and socioeconomic inequality. We do have a political problem in Minnesota, and that problem is a kind of ruthless punity that hides behind a veneer of "niceness" and "common sense". Except that our leaders are too often more focused on wooing high-dollar tax payers then they are on taking care of the people who make the city happen in the first place, the workers and families who live there.