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When you have syndromes with a huge number of symptoms, including extremely common conditions, and the symptoms are largely untestable, relying on patient self-
by jlmorton 5y ago
When you have syndromes with a huge number of symptoms, including extremely common conditions, and the symptoms are largely untestable, relying on patient self-reporting, then you're going to catch a lot of people with these symptoms.
This is the exact same thing with Long Covid, or Gulf War Syndrome.
The most interesting thing about Havana Syndrome is that it apparently only affects English-speaking diplomats in American and Canadian embassies. This is probably because they're familiar with the syndrome from news reports.
- SCAQTony 5y agoLong Covid is demonstrably provable with scans, O2-saturation, blood pressure and other diagnostic checks. https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n853/rr-2 https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n853/rr-2
- krona 5y agoFrom your BMJ reference: The term long covid embraces a wide spectrum of organ involvement, with no clear evidence yet to help inform efficient diagnostic pathways or specific treatments or to indicate probable prognosis.
- CRConrad 5y agoThat still doesn't mean it lacks concrete objectively measurable symptoms.
- SCAQTony 5y agoMy mileage varies.
- SCAQTony 5y ago"...In this cohort study including 100 patients recently recovered from COVID-19 identified from a COVID-19 test center, cardiac magnetic resonance imaging revealed cardiac involvement in 78 patients (78%) and ongoing myocardial inflammation in 60 patients (60%), which was independent of preexisting conditions, severity and overall course of the acute illness, and the time from the original diagnosis....." https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768916 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/...
- MarkMarine 5y agoGulf war syndrome is a real thing. So is Long Covid.
- colordrops 5y agoThis is a reasonable hypothesis but do you have any more evidence for this than the others?
- ineedasername 5y agoThey weren't offering a hypothesis for the cause of this, only noting the difficulty of making such determinations given the circumstances. Besides which, all any of us have to go by are hypothesis. I think it's pretty clear that speculation is the only thing available to discussions on the possible causes.
- colordrops 5y agoYes they are, they are clearly saying that it's psychosomatic.
- BoiledCabbage 5y ago> This is the exact same thing with Long Covid, or Gulf War Syndrome. Is your example trying to argue that Havana syndrome isn't physiological? Because that what I get from your tone, but the data you provide argues the opposite. Both times a collection of unrelated people reported consistently reported broad but similar/overlapping symptoms, and in both cases (Gulf War Syndrome, and Long Covid) they were later shown to be objectively legit even though they weren't taken as seriously at first. It seems like the same thing with this - in my book its a bit too coincidental at this point. Not to mention happening all around the same time period in a new location.
- smnrchrds 5y ago> it apparently only affects English-speaking diplomats in American and Canadian embassies Wasn't that the premise of a video game series? A biological weapon that can be tuned to a specific language, so it affects only the speakers of the language? I cannot remember the name.
- yellow_lead 5y agoI don't think that's the point he was making. Moreso, that they "think" they have it, because they've heard of it. They may have real symptoms, but it could be false attribution or something else.