3 ms·

Internal combustion engines are actually very efficient. Burning gasoline in a power plant produces 2.13 pounds of CO2 per kWh, Model 3 LR consumes 16 kWh per

by wwtrv 5y ago

Internal combustion engines are actually very efficient. Burning gasoline in a power plant produces 2.13 pounds of CO2 per kWh, Model 3 LR consumes 16 kWh per 100km, so 34.08lb of CO2. A car consuming 7 liters of gas per 100km would emit 35lb of CO2. I assume energy loss from plant to battery is not insignificant so the IC should be better if the power grid is 100% petroleum (for coal it should be 2x worse). Sources: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=74&t=11 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=74&t=11 https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/info-tools/One%20table%20to%20rule%20them%20all%20v1.pdf https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/info-tools/One%20tab...

gpm 5y ago
Worth noting that your CO2 emission value for gasoline powered vehicles is tailpipe emissions, the total value (well to wheels) should be very roughly 25% higher. I don't know exactly what CO2 production your power plant number includes. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.6b02819#tbl1 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.6b02819#tbl1
- wwtrv 5y ago
  Thanks just wanted to make a rough approximation since a purely coal/petrol network is not realistic anyway. https://www.eia.gov/tools/glossary/index.php?id=Net%20generation https://www.eia.gov/tools/glossary/index.php?id=Net%20genera... I believe it’s electricity generated at the plant, so we should add 5-15% for transmission losses and 8-20% depending on charger efficiency. Assuming 5% transmission and 10% charging loss using the well-to-wheel figures you posted charging in a 100% coal grid should be equivalent to and around 5.7l/100km / 41mpg IC car.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    If you use the 16kWh per 100km numbers you provided perhaps. This number however is wrong. The official EPA estimate for the Model 3 is 14.88kWh, not 16kWh per 100km. Real world testing yields an even lower value of 12kWh. https://thedriven.io/2020/10/20/model-3-achieves-record-low-energy-consumption-in-driving-efficiency-test/ https://thedriven.io/2020/10/20/model-3-achieves-record-low-...

by wwtrv 5y ago

gpm 5y ago

Worth noting that your CO2 emission value for gasoline powered vehicles is tailpipe emissions, the total value (well to wheels) should be very roughly 25% higher. I don't know exactly what CO2 production your power plant number includes. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.6b02819#tbl1 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.6b02819#tbl1

wwtrv 5y ago
Thanks just wanted to make a rough approximation since a purely coal/petrol network is not realistic anyway. https://www.eia.gov/tools/glossary/index.php?id=Net%20generation https://www.eia.gov/tools/glossary/index.php?id=Net%20genera... I believe it’s electricity generated at the plant, so we should add 5-15% for transmission losses and 8-20% depending on charger efficiency. Assuming 5% transmission and 10% charging loss using the well-to-wheel figures you posted charging in a 100% coal grid should be equivalent to and around 5.7l/100km / 41mpg IC car.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  If you use the 16kWh per 100km numbers you provided perhaps. This number however is wrong. The official EPA estimate for the Model 3 is 14.88kWh, not 16kWh per 100km. Real world testing yields an even lower value of 12kWh. https://thedriven.io/2020/10/20/model-3-achieves-record-low-energy-consumption-in-driving-efficiency-test/ https://thedriven.io/2020/10/20/model-3-achieves-record-low-...