I understand GP's point, education can vary widely depending on the country. For example, in my home country an undergraduate degree in engineering is normally

I understand GP's point, education can vary widely depending on the country. For example, in my home country an undergraduate degree in engineering is normally 5 years where - first 2 years are very standard undergraduate courses (your lower division) - last 3rd and 4th years are the upper division you describe - 5th year is a graduation project that can be 50 to 100 pages long (almost a thesis) + upper division courses and maybe a research paper (depends if you had a scholarship of sorts) So when a person goes to do a master in this country, the experience is almost one of a PhD, while the PhD experience is very intense.