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If the program was coded to produce subjective feeling, no. Otherwise, it would suprise me very much. I believe what we call consciousness is selected for and i

If the program was coded to produce subjective feeling, no. Otherwise, it would suprise me very much. I believe what we call consciousness is selected for and is written into the structure our brains have. I do not beleive that consciouness exists outside of living brains. Maybe I am wrong but so far there has not been much evidence. I also do not believe consciousness is simply an accident but that it was specifically selected for by evolution. People who have taken psychedelics may disagree but I think consciouness is tightly connected with sense of self, the ego. An organism that is conscious can have a sense of self. An organism with a sense of self may have a greater degree of flexible self preservation / flexible self promotion than a simple stimulus response network. Because we are conscious we focus on what we are feeling about our selves not just on the immediate sensory stimulus. Pyschedelics may break down the connection / integration of senses with self giving rise to the illusion of consciousness outside of the self-brain. But I would say this is an illusion.

foxhop 5y ago
Check out some documentaries on the octopus or the crow. You might have to revisit some of these theories.
- morpheos137 5y ago
  Are you saying an octopus or a crow is not conscious? I am not saying that. To me it is clear that higher animals have a sense of self. Whether they can pass the paint dot test is another matter.
hsn915 5y ago
> If the program was coded to produce subjective feeling How would such a program work? What would it do in order to produce subjective feelings? You do understand that you can not just write a program to do some arbitrary X if that's not within the capabilities of the hardware it's running on. For example, you cannot write a program that would make the laptop fly. You need something that's physically capable of flying that can also be controlled by software. Like a drone or something.
- morpheos137 5y ago
  Of course I understand that but you seem to be working from an assumption that brains are not sufficient hardware to run consciousness on. I submit Human wetware is a little more sophisiticated than your avant garde binary computer. That does not mean that consciouness is a superanatural or ethereal process not emanating from the brain.
  - hsn915 5y ago
    > you seem to be working from an assumption that brains are not sufficient hardware to run consciousness on I did not make such a statement. I made the point that computers certainly are not. Therefore you cannot reduce consciousness to information processing. For many reasons, the most important one is that "information processing" can be used to describe the flow of water in pipes, so if you say that is sufficient to produce consciousness then you must say that the sewage system is conscious.

foxhop 5y ago

Check out some documentaries on the octopus or the crow. You might have to revisit some of these theories.

morpheos137 5y ago
Are you saying an octopus or a crow is not conscious? I am not saying that. To me it is clear that higher animals have a sense of self. Whether they can pass the paint dot test is another matter.

hsn915 5y ago

> If the program was coded to produce subjective feeling How would such a program work? What would it do in order to produce subjective feelings? You do understand that you can not just write a program to do some arbitrary X if that's not within the capabilities of the hardware it's running on. For example, you cannot write a program that would make the laptop fly. You need something that's physically capable of flying that can also be controlled by software. Like a drone or something.

morpheos137 5y ago
Of course I understand that but you seem to be working from an assumption that brains are not sufficient hardware to run consciousness on. I submit Human wetware is a little more sophisiticated than your avant garde binary computer. That does not mean that consciouness is a superanatural or ethereal process not emanating from the brain.
- hsn915 5y ago
  > you seem to be working from an assumption that brains are not sufficient hardware to run consciousness on I did not make such a statement. I made the point that computers certainly are not. Therefore you cannot reduce consciousness to information processing. For many reasons, the most important one is that "information processing" can be used to describe the flow of water in pipes, so if you say that is sufficient to produce consciousness then you must say that the sewage system is conscious.