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I almost feel like "doing your taxes" is one of those things that is like going to buy a new car. Everyone hates it, but when Saturn came along and said "no hag

I almost feel like "doing your taxes" is one of those things that is like going to buy a new car. Everyone hates it, but when Saturn came along and said "no haggling, just best price on every car" people didn't actually like that. I go to buy a new car and I HOPE I got a great price, I worked on it, I bargained, I did the research. They say I did really good this team, I got such a great deal! I "do my taxes" and I HOPE I paid as little as possible. I worked on it, I kept my receipts, I did the research, and maybe I even paid someone to do all that for me and they say I did really good this year, low tax bill! Both of these things suck, but if I just got a bill from the IRS I'm just going to think "maybe I could've done better" just like if I see a car that just has a price I am going to think "maybe I could've done better" I really don't like thinking like this!

jolux 5y ago
It’s funny, I don’t really feel that way about spending money on stuff, especially not cars which are a total nightmare. I guess I consider my time a lot more valuable? Probably why the higher prices for Apple products don’t bother me. I just want something consistent that I don’t have to think about.
monster_group 5y ago
For virtually everything in life (not just cars and taxes), there's always "maybe I could have done better". This attitude is a recipe to be always dissatisfied and unhappy. The approach should be "did I do a good job?". For example, if you were able to get $1000 off on the car but most people are able to get only $800 then the answer is "yes" and you should be happy and content even though someone may have gotten $1200 off. Once you start evaluating your actions and decisions like that, life becomes much happier and content.
Denvercoder9 5y ago
> Both of these things suck, but if I just got a bill from the IRS I'm just going to think "maybe I could've done better" I don't think anyone is advocating for removing the option to file taxes manually. Just let the IRS send a bill by default, and give you the option to file your taxes yourself if there's something wrong or you think you can do better.
jjoonathan 5y ago
> when Saturn came along and said "no haggling, just best price on every car" people didn't actually like that. Uh-huh. The world is full of people willing to make things easy for a small fee. In my experience, many of them advertise as bargain options without actually offering a bargain. Is that what Saturn was doing? Does the market really have a perverse enjoyment for haggling or was Saturn full of shit and the market called them out on it?
ncallaway 5y ago
> if I just got a bill from the IRS I'm just going to think "maybe I could've done better" All proposed legislation I’ve see would allow you to fill out a 1040 and send it in, if the IRS prepared numbers don’t work for you. So if they mark the standard deduction, but you think you can do better itemizing your deductions you would still be able to do that. It would mean the people that want to optimize their filings can, but every person isn’t forced to do so.
acdha 5y ago
Saturn was quite popular – what killed them was internal GM politics. As the only American car approaching Japanese quality they sold quite well even during the early 90s recession, which was seen as cannibalizing other divisions within GM and their quality improvements prevented sharing components across other GM lines. I would not draw any lessons from that other than that the “startup within a large company” path is perilous. For taxes, I think most people would be quite happy to have a “we think you get/owe $x” statement arrive since it’d require no action and would give ironclad audit protection. People with complex taxes, distrust, or intention to cheat would still do their own but I’d be quite surprised if 20 years later the U.S. didn’t resemble most other countries.
wpietri 5y ago
I think this should not be downvoted. It's an honest expression of a plausible feeling. My dad always said his favorite video game was TurboTax because when he got a high score, it was real money. He loved spending hours every year optimizing his return. He was also the sort of person who really got into rewards cards and airline miles. It was satisfying to him to work the system in his favor. And he's not alone. I once accidentally ended up at a meetup of people who were airline miles fiends. They were very... dedicated. Personally, I think all of that stuff is tedious nonsense. I'm not interested in letting companies manipulate my behavior. If I'm going to work hard at something, it will be something that creates value. But I recognize I'm an outlier here. Some people would really miss doing their taxes because they've gotten good at it. Which is why it's good that the proposed laws will let them keep going if they want to.
theonemind 5y ago
I think it's more like the thing where everyone hates it, but it doesn't matter because US public policy literally has nothing to do with what an average person wants, except by accident, and reflects the desires of the wealthy pretty well. I wish I were joking or just being cynical. This is a legitimately defensible position. Political science studies have shown this sort of thing: https://oxfordre.com/politics/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190228637.001.0001/acrefore-9780190228637-e-74 https://oxfordre.com/politics/view/10.1093/acrefore/97801902... . I believe it because it reflects my experience in the US in my lifetime. Nothing happens with government except knee-jerk reactions to things like the Sept 11, 2001 attacks and the TSA. Aside from that, business as usual. The infrastructure crumbles, healthcare costs keep going up, tax code never gets fixed, and on and on. It works fine for the wealthy, doesn't represent or help the people, and never gets any better. That's all, that simple. Incidentally, I didn't downvote you. I just disagree.

jolux 5y ago

It’s funny, I don’t really feel that way about spending money on stuff, especially not cars which are a total nightmare. I guess I consider my time a lot more valuable? Probably why the higher prices for Apple products don’t bother me. I just want something consistent that I don’t have to think about.

monster_group 5y ago

For virtually everything in life (not just cars and taxes), there's always "maybe I could have done better". This attitude is a recipe to be always dissatisfied and unhappy. The approach should be "did I do a good job?". For example, if you were able to get $1000 off on the car but most people are able to get only $800 then the answer is "yes" and you should be happy and content even though someone may have gotten $1200 off. Once you start evaluating your actions and decisions like that, life becomes much happier and content.

Denvercoder9 5y ago

> Both of these things suck, but if I just got a bill from the IRS I'm just going to think "maybe I could've done better" I don't think anyone is advocating for removing the option to file taxes manually. Just let the IRS send a bill by default, and give you the option to file your taxes yourself if there's something wrong or you think you can do better.

jjoonathan 5y ago

> when Saturn came along and said "no haggling, just best price on every car" people didn't actually like that. Uh-huh. The world is full of people willing to make things easy for a small fee. In my experience, many of them advertise as bargain options without actually offering a bargain. Is that what Saturn was doing? Does the market really have a perverse enjoyment for haggling or was Saturn full of shit and the market called them out on it?

ncallaway 5y ago

> if I just got a bill from the IRS I'm just going to think "maybe I could've done better" All proposed legislation I’ve see would allow you to fill out a 1040 and send it in, if the IRS prepared numbers don’t work for you. So if they mark the standard deduction, but you think you can do better itemizing your deductions you would still be able to do that. It would mean the people that want to optimize their filings can, but every person isn’t forced to do so.

acdha 5y ago

Saturn was quite popular – what killed them was internal GM politics. As the only American car approaching Japanese quality they sold quite well even during the early 90s recession, which was seen as cannibalizing other divisions within GM and their quality improvements prevented sharing components across other GM lines. I would not draw any lessons from that other than that the “startup within a large company” path is perilous. For taxes, I think most people would be quite happy to have a “we think you get/owe $x” statement arrive since it’d require no action and would give ironclad audit protection. People with complex taxes, distrust, or intention to cheat would still do their own but I’d be quite surprised if 20 years later the U.S. didn’t resemble most other countries.

wpietri 5y ago

I think this should not be downvoted. It's an honest expression of a plausible feeling. My dad always said his favorite video game was TurboTax because when he got a high score, it was real money. He loved spending hours every year optimizing his return. He was also the sort of person who really got into rewards cards and airline miles. It was satisfying to him to work the system in his favor. And he's not alone. I once accidentally ended up at a meetup of people who were airline miles fiends. They were very... dedicated. Personally, I think all of that stuff is tedious nonsense. I'm not interested in letting companies manipulate my behavior. If I'm going to work hard at something, it will be something that creates value. But I recognize I'm an outlier here. Some people would really miss doing their taxes because they've gotten good at it. Which is why it's good that the proposed laws will let them keep going if they want to.

theonemind 5y ago

I think it's more like the thing where everyone hates it, but it doesn't matter because US public policy literally has nothing to do with what an average person wants, except by accident, and reflects the desires of the wealthy pretty well. I wish I were joking or just being cynical. This is a legitimately defensible position. Political science studies have shown this sort of thing: https://oxfordre.com/politics/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190228637.001.0001/acrefore-9780190228637-e-74 https://oxfordre.com/politics/view/10.1093/acrefore/97801902... . I believe it because it reflects my experience in the US in my lifetime. Nothing happens with government except knee-jerk reactions to things like the Sept 11, 2001 attacks and the TSA. Aside from that, business as usual. The infrastructure crumbles, healthcare costs keep going up, tax code never gets fixed, and on and on. It works fine for the wealthy, doesn't represent or help the people, and never gets any better. That's all, that simple. Incidentally, I didn't downvote you. I just disagree.