4 ms·

I kind of wonder why it's always acceptable to have general critics about the Frenchs, but take exactly the same discours and replace it replace it with Jews or

I kind of wonder why it's always acceptable to have general critics about the Frenchs, but take exactly the same discours and replace it replace it with Jews or Blacks, and sundenly, it becomes completely racist and unacceptable.

CydeWeys 5y ago
You can't compare a nationality to an ethnicity/religion and a race, respectively.
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
  Why?
  - danans 5y ago
    Race operates on an individual regardless of their behavior. It is a construct that is based on physical appearance only. Race is something that an individual has no control over. Culture and ethnicity are constructs derived from behaviors, including language, manner of dress, interests, etc. Culture/ethnicity is something that depending on the individual, they can have far more (though not total) control over, via changing manner of dress, language, etc. Discrimination can be based on either one, but the immutability of the former distinguishes it from the latter.
    - julienfr112 5y ago
      Yeah, maybe French people could just unfrench their frenchiness...
      - danans 5y ago
        The whole point of the pamphlet is they shouldn't have to in order to be accepted by the American troops, but a white French person with sufficient linguistic and cultural flexibility could pass for a white American, and largely would in contexts where they did not have to speak. And black person could never do the same.
        seszett 5y ago
        A black person could pass for a white person in contexts where did not have to show their skin colour, it's not that different or even rare.
        danans 5y ago
        > A black person could pass for a white person in contexts where did not have to show their skin colour So basically on the phone or email only. In every other scenario, like when walking down the street or encountering law enforcement, it's pretty much impossible.
- epivosism 5y ago
  Which is more important, culture or race? Same-culture bonds of language, ideals, values, traditions look stronger to me. I connect to people from my hometown, of my culture, regardless of race, way more than to people who just randomly have my race but don't know any of my memes or have similar values. Another example: bonds within military units are cultural, not racial; if race were more powerful you'd expect soldiers from mixed-race countries to change sides due to stronger racial pulls - which I don't think happens, and which would be super problematic, wouldn't it? A Japanese-American soldier is American first, right? Suggesting that race is incomparably larger of a gap than culture has some really serious implications.
  - CydeWeys 5y ago
    It's not about what's most important to one's identity, it's about what's more harmful in present times. Racism is still deeply harmful, in a way that making fun of the French/British/Americans/whatever isn't. A lot of the latter just devolves into mostly good-natured international ribbing, about Yanks being fat, the French being smelly, British food sucking, etc. Also, it's easy to say that one's perceived race isn't important if that's not an issue that affects you, but if you were black and were experiencing frequent racism from people merely looking at you (not otherwise even interacting with you in a way that could allow them to determine your national identity), then you might sing a different tune. I'm a white American, and my experiences at home and abroad are much different to those of black Americans, for reasons having everything to do with perceived race. In most countries you will be treated substantially differently if you're visiting as a white westerner vs a black one. That has nothing to do with national origin and everything to do with racism. Anyway, point is, all the differences I identified plus all the ones you identified mean that the two are quite different and aren't equivalent.
afarrell 5y ago
As a mixed race person married to a Jew, I think it would be tremendously healthy for a well-informed person to write one of each —- but within a specific national and time-bounded context.
- thehappypm 5y ago
  Yes, I agree. Modern writers have no such freedoms to do this type of writing. Imagine the backlash of just page after page of "The blacks are X" or "the Jews are Z". Even writing down the criticisms to be debunked would send the Twitterverse into a meltdown.
cycomanic 5y ago
Have you watched any stand-up comedy. Lots of comedians are making fun of the idiosyncrasies of different ethnicities, nationalities, religions. The problem is generally, who is doing it and how you do it.

CydeWeys 5y ago

You can't compare a nationality to an ethnicity/religion and a race, respectively.

isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
Why?
- danans 5y ago
  Race operates on an individual regardless of their behavior. It is a construct that is based on physical appearance only. Race is something that an individual has no control over. Culture and ethnicity are constructs derived from behaviors, including language, manner of dress, interests, etc. Culture/ethnicity is something that depending on the individual, they can have far more (though not total) control over, via changing manner of dress, language, etc. Discrimination can be based on either one, but the immutability of the former distinguishes it from the latter.
  - julienfr112 5y ago
    Yeah, maybe French people could just unfrench their frenchiness...
    - danans 5y ago
      The whole point of the pamphlet is they shouldn't have to in order to be accepted by the American troops, but a white French person with sufficient linguistic and cultural flexibility could pass for a white American, and largely would in contexts where they did not have to speak. And black person could never do the same.
      - seszett 5y ago
        A black person could pass for a white person in contexts where did not have to show their skin colour, it's not that different or even rare.
        danans 5y ago
        > A black person could pass for a white person in contexts where did not have to show their skin colour So basically on the phone or email only. In every other scenario, like when walking down the street or encountering law enforcement, it's pretty much impossible.
epivosism 5y ago
Which is more important, culture or race? Same-culture bonds of language, ideals, values, traditions look stronger to me. I connect to people from my hometown, of my culture, regardless of race, way more than to people who just randomly have my race but don't know any of my memes or have similar values. Another example: bonds within military units are cultural, not racial; if race were more powerful you'd expect soldiers from mixed-race countries to change sides due to stronger racial pulls - which I don't think happens, and which would be super problematic, wouldn't it? A Japanese-American soldier is American first, right? Suggesting that race is incomparably larger of a gap than culture has some really serious implications.
- CydeWeys 5y ago
  It's not about what's most important to one's identity, it's about what's more harmful in present times. Racism is still deeply harmful, in a way that making fun of the French/British/Americans/whatever isn't. A lot of the latter just devolves into mostly good-natured international ribbing, about Yanks being fat, the French being smelly, British food sucking, etc. Also, it's easy to say that one's perceived race isn't important if that's not an issue that affects you, but if you were black and were experiencing frequent racism from people merely looking at you (not otherwise even interacting with you in a way that could allow them to determine your national identity), then you might sing a different tune. I'm a white American, and my experiences at home and abroad are much different to those of black Americans, for reasons having everything to do with perceived race. In most countries you will be treated substantially differently if you're visiting as a white westerner vs a black one. That has nothing to do with national origin and everything to do with racism. Anyway, point is, all the differences I identified plus all the ones you identified mean that the two are quite different and aren't equivalent.

afarrell 5y ago

As a mixed race person married to a Jew, I think it would be tremendously healthy for a well-informed person to write one of each —- but within a specific national and time-bounded context.

thehappypm 5y ago
Yes, I agree. Modern writers have no such freedoms to do this type of writing. Imagine the backlash of just page after page of "The blacks are X" or "the Jews are Z". Even writing down the criticisms to be debunked would send the Twitterverse into a meltdown.

cycomanic 5y ago

Have you watched any stand-up comedy. Lots of comedians are making fun of the idiosyncrasies of different ethnicities, nationalities, religions. The problem is generally, who is doing it and how you do it.