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When are we going to learn that encouraging everyone to get more education is a waste of resources? All it leads to is lowered standards and devalued degrees.

When are we going to learn that encouraging everyone to get more education is a waste of resources? All it leads to is lowered standards and devalued degrees. Your credential is only worth something because someone else doesn't have it.

jonnycomputer 5y ago
One would hope that one's salary would depend on one's expected productivity, which an education should increase. Lowered standards and devalued degrees is probably a thing though.
- zsmi 5y ago
  I would say this depends strongly on the field. In the field I'm most experienced in, electrical engineering, I tell people considering a Master's is that it's a possible short cut to the pay of someone with 3 years of experience. So if you can get it fast enough, and the math works out, then do it. Otherwise skip it.
ajuc 5y ago
> Your credential is only worth something because someone else doesn't have it. That would be true only if all the jobs requiring these credentials were already filled and none were to be created in the future.
BurningFrog 5y ago
One way to think of this is that the "ruling class", for lack of a better term, in the US is college educated professionals. To them, "college is good" is an unquestionable truth, and the systems they build will always give more resources to colleges.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
CydeWeys 5y ago
> Your credential is only worth something because someone else doesn't have it. This is an unbelievably cynical take on the world. Society and the economy are not zero-sum, and having better education and better skills make someone better off without taking away an equal amount of opportunity from others.
- amanaplanacanal 5y ago
  Better skills are not zero sum, but credentials are. Having a doctorate is only impressive if everybody else doesn't also have one.then you would have to have two doctorates.
  - UK-Al05 5y ago
    What? Doctorate implies you've learned some skills. If everyone suddenly everyone got better at maths and critical thinking. Overall the economy would be more productive, and everyone would be better off. There isn't a fixed amount wealth, to be divided up between people. If you increase skill levels, total level of wealth can increase.
    - ghufran_syed 5y ago
      You’re assuming that getting the doctorate actually increased people’s skills that are economically useful - this book suggests otherwise: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lsereviewofbooks/2018/05/30/book-review-the-case-against-education-why-the-education-system-is-a-waste-of-time-and-money-by-bryan-caplan/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lsereviewofbooks/2018/05/30/book-rev... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_Against_Education https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_Against_Education
analognoise 5y ago
Only if the people hired with those degrees are capable of doing the work. There's an ongoing weakening of the signal for people with degrees who can actually do design engineering.
caseysoftware 5y ago
It's a qualification arms race. When very few people had college degrees, they were of high value because the programs were more likely to be rigorous. As US society said "higher education is the best path to success", it drove up demand where people who never would have considered college otherwise were pushed that way by teachers, guidance counselors, and parents. The high school system adjusted to launch more students in better ways. Along the way, that morphed into "higher education is the only path to success" and suddenly anyone who didn't go was considered a failure and the entire high school system dumbed down to the point where more and more otherwise normal courses were deemed "college prep." Unfortunately, it put students who would be below college standards or even just borderline a generation ago in a bad spot where they were underprepared. But colleges get massive cashflow so they introduced more remedial courses in the first year and the average student is graduating in 5 or 6 years. They've steadily devalued themselves and are looking more and more like high school 2.0 but longer with a massive price tag. (Background: Have a college age kid just going through this personally and watching his friends struggle as some hit these walls. It's sad and ugly and didn't have to be this way.)
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  As a mid 20s returning college student, its definitely high school 2.0. I've talked to and tried to hit on many girls only to come to actually stop because their priorities are just way out of wack. Guys seem more mellow than in high school at least. But for the most part I encounter the "know it all" arrogance more from men. A lot of them just never failed hard in their lives before so they often think they can beat the system or what have you.
markus_zhang 5y ago
I think it's never a waste to get more education. But getting an advanced degree from a mediocre school for the sake of career advancement probably doesn't worth it. A few exceptions: 1) You want to learn something but doesn't want to go through the 90-credit undergraduate. In my university they give you access to a CS graduate diploma that consists of 10 core CS courses under the requirement that you already have an undergraduate degree (non-CS) and pass the entry CS course about programming (usually a Java 101 course). IMO it's a LOT better than a 90-credit second undergraduate degree on CS. The other exception is that you want to do the research but I'd argue it still doesn't worth it unless it's a prestigious school like top 20 in North America (MIT, Stanford, CMU, Waterloo, those top schools).

jonnycomputer 5y ago

One would hope that one's salary would depend on one's expected productivity, which an education should increase. Lowered standards and devalued degrees is probably a thing though.

zsmi 5y ago
I would say this depends strongly on the field. In the field I'm most experienced in, electrical engineering, I tell people considering a Master's is that it's a possible short cut to the pay of someone with 3 years of experience. So if you can get it fast enough, and the math works out, then do it. Otherwise skip it.

ajuc 5y ago

> Your credential is only worth something because someone else doesn't have it. That would be true only if all the jobs requiring these credentials were already filled and none were to be created in the future.

BurningFrog 5y ago

One way to think of this is that the "ruling class", for lack of a better term, in the US is college educated professionals. To them, "college is good" is an unquestionable truth, and the systems they build will always give more resources to colleges.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

CydeWeys 5y ago

> Your credential is only worth something because someone else doesn't have it. This is an unbelievably cynical take on the world. Society and the economy are not zero-sum, and having better education and better skills make someone better off without taking away an equal amount of opportunity from others.

amanaplanacanal 5y ago
Better skills are not zero sum, but credentials are. Having a doctorate is only impressive if everybody else doesn't also have one.then you would have to have two doctorates.
- UK-Al05 5y ago
  What? Doctorate implies you've learned some skills. If everyone suddenly everyone got better at maths and critical thinking. Overall the economy would be more productive, and everyone would be better off. There isn't a fixed amount wealth, to be divided up between people. If you increase skill levels, total level of wealth can increase.
  - ghufran_syed 5y ago
    You’re assuming that getting the doctorate actually increased people’s skills that are economically useful - this book suggests otherwise: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lsereviewofbooks/2018/05/30/book-review-the-case-against-education-why-the-education-system-is-a-waste-of-time-and-money-by-bryan-caplan/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lsereviewofbooks/2018/05/30/book-rev... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_Against_Education https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_Against_Education

analognoise 5y ago

Only if the people hired with those degrees are capable of doing the work. There's an ongoing weakening of the signal for people with degrees who can actually do design engineering.

caseysoftware 5y ago

It's a qualification arms race. When very few people had college degrees, they were of high value because the programs were more likely to be rigorous. As US society said "higher education is the best path to success", it drove up demand where people who never would have considered college otherwise were pushed that way by teachers, guidance counselors, and parents. The high school system adjusted to launch more students in better ways. Along the way, that morphed into "higher education is the only path to success" and suddenly anyone who didn't go was considered a failure and the entire high school system dumbed down to the point where more and more otherwise normal courses were deemed "college prep." Unfortunately, it put students who would be below college standards or even just borderline a generation ago in a bad spot where they were underprepared. But colleges get massive cashflow so they introduced more remedial courses in the first year and the average student is graduating in 5 or 6 years. They've steadily devalued themselves and are looking more and more like high school 2.0 but longer with a massive price tag. (Background: Have a college age kid just going through this personally and watching his friends struggle as some hit these walls. It's sad and ugly and didn't have to be this way.)

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
As a mid 20s returning college student, its definitely high school 2.0. I've talked to and tried to hit on many girls only to come to actually stop because their priorities are just way out of wack. Guys seem more mellow than in high school at least. But for the most part I encounter the "know it all" arrogance more from men. A lot of them just never failed hard in their lives before so they often think they can beat the system or what have you.

markus_zhang 5y ago

I think it's never a waste to get more education. But getting an advanced degree from a mediocre school for the sake of career advancement probably doesn't worth it. A few exceptions: 1) You want to learn something but doesn't want to go through the 90-credit undergraduate. In my university they give you access to a CS graduate diploma that consists of 10 core CS courses under the requirement that you already have an undergraduate degree (non-CS) and pass the entry CS course about programming (usually a Java 101 course). IMO it's a LOT better than a 90-credit second undergraduate degree on CS. The other exception is that you want to do the research but I'd argue it still doesn't worth it unless it's a prestigious school like top 20 in North America (MIT, Stanford, CMU, Waterloo, those top schools).