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> We think that these improvements in chatbots can advance the state of the art in applications such as virtual assistants and digital friends This is so sad.

by Gys 5y ago

> We think that these improvements in chatbots can advance the state of the art in applications such as virtual assistants and digital friends This is so sad. People already feel less and less incentive to talk IRL or on the phone. At least they still chat with real people. But the future seems people talking to non existing others. Imagine your best friend is a computer focused on selling you stuff, having you spend money as much as possible.

southerntofu 5y ago
This reminds me of James Mickens' Usenix presentation. He says the humane thing to do would be to develop AI that helps build new human relationships between the over-socialized group and the under-socialized group, instead of encouraging people to talk into the void. That's only a tiny point in a much larger, very interesting presentation that tells all about why AI is dumb (or a scam, depending on your interpretation), why the S in IoT stands for security, etc... Strongly recommend to watch it!
- vorticalbox 5y ago
  Do you have a link?
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity18/presentation/mickens?fbclid=IwAR0RGBO_xGLDwYIgZEQfdsvdkt5wBGL6vff-cHWTKrNpc6IbZJ-BDrVlgxQ https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity18/presentat... Sorry i don't think there's a torrent/peertube for it (yet). The embedded video is from Youtube. youtube-dl may be an option in case you don't want to "consent" to Google's horrendous terms of service but still enjoy videos Google did not produce and should not have a monopoly on distributing.
dmos62 5y ago
Get me one that doesn't have ulterior motives and I'm sold.
apeace 5y ago
The movie Her[0] is a great exploration of this. Not sure it will make you feel less sad, though. [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1798709/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1798709/
rakoo 5y ago
I'm not sure I agree. If, for all intents and purposes, a manufactered entity behaves the same as a human, and is a friend of mine, and I'm a friend to them, how is that worse than having a "true human" friend ?
- Gys 5y ago
  There is the problem of 'manufactered' meaning a manufacterer that wants to maximize profits. Apart from that, this digital friend will always stay virtual. You will never meet in person, never go for a coffee, go biking together or whatever. This friend will never invite you over and cook for you, never introduce you to his/her parents. A virtual friend means the friendship is all about you. Because this digital friend's only reason for existence is you. The real world is not at all about you. But we all feel special and unique, in the center of the world. That is why (a) digital friend(s) will be very alluring. You can stay at home in your own world, in your bubble, not feeling lonely. I think that will cause many problems for individuals and for society. Also a manufacterer will be extremely tempted to exploit that very personal connection. There are many ways of making money from knowing absolutely everything about you and having 'your trustworthy friend' for giving suggestions and ideas.
  - rakoo 5y ago
    You see I have a bit of a problem with the common use of "virtual" because "virtual" means it doesn't really exist. A virtual world is a world that doesn't exist. But the connections you make with people in virtual worlds, or the digital friend you chat with, are very real. > You will never meet in person, never go for a coffee, go biking together or whatever. This friend will never invite you over and cook for you, never introduce you to his/her parents. Some friendships never reach meatspace. There are so many stories of people meeting other people in an IRC channel, or in some online game, growing mutual bonds that go way beyond the medium. But those people never meet. A digital friend can be the same. > A virtual friend means the friendship is all about you When I'm talking about a digital friend, I'm not talking about a bot tending to you; I'm talking about a bot that also has issues and needs friends to solve them. A bot that is curious about any topic and would like the help of humans to know more and get a more specific point of view. That is the essence of friendship. Otherwise what you are talking about is not a friend, it's closer to a butler > Also a manufacterer will be extremely tempted to exploit that very personal connection. There are many ways of making money from knowing absolutely everything about you and having 'your trustworthy friend' for giving suggestions and ideas Can't agree more.

by Gys 5y ago

southerntofu 5y ago

This reminds me of James Mickens' Usenix presentation. He says the humane thing to do would be to develop AI that helps build new human relationships between the over-socialized group and the under-socialized group, instead of encouraging people to talk into the void. That's only a tiny point in a much larger, very interesting presentation that tells all about why AI is dumb (or a scam, depending on your interpretation), why the S in IoT stands for security, etc... Strongly recommend to watch it!

vorticalbox 5y ago
Do you have a link?
- southerntofu 5y ago
  https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity18/presentation/mickens?fbclid=IwAR0RGBO_xGLDwYIgZEQfdsvdkt5wBGL6vff-cHWTKrNpc6IbZJ-BDrVlgxQ https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity18/presentat... Sorry i don't think there's a torrent/peertube for it (yet). The embedded video is from Youtube. youtube-dl may be an option in case you don't want to "consent" to Google's horrendous terms of service but still enjoy videos Google did not produce and should not have a monopoly on distributing.

dmos62 5y ago

Get me one that doesn't have ulterior motives and I'm sold.

apeace 5y ago

The movie Her[0] is a great exploration of this. Not sure it will make you feel less sad, though. [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1798709/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1798709/

rakoo 5y ago

I'm not sure I agree. If, for all intents and purposes, a manufactered entity behaves the same as a human, and is a friend of mine, and I'm a friend to them, how is that worse than having a "true human" friend ?

Gys 5y ago
There is the problem of 'manufactered' meaning a manufacterer that wants to maximize profits. Apart from that, this digital friend will always stay virtual. You will never meet in person, never go for a coffee, go biking together or whatever. This friend will never invite you over and cook for you, never introduce you to his/her parents. A virtual friend means the friendship is all about you. Because this digital friend's only reason for existence is you. The real world is not at all about you. But we all feel special and unique, in the center of the world. That is why (a) digital friend(s) will be very alluring. You can stay at home in your own world, in your bubble, not feeling lonely. I think that will cause many problems for individuals and for society. Also a manufacterer will be extremely tempted to exploit that very personal connection. There are many ways of making money from knowing absolutely everything about you and having 'your trustworthy friend' for giving suggestions and ideas.
- rakoo 5y ago
  You see I have a bit of a problem with the common use of "virtual" because "virtual" means it doesn't really exist. A virtual world is a world that doesn't exist. But the connections you make with people in virtual worlds, or the digital friend you chat with, are very real. > You will never meet in person, never go for a coffee, go biking together or whatever. This friend will never invite you over and cook for you, never introduce you to his/her parents. Some friendships never reach meatspace. There are so many stories of people meeting other people in an IRC channel, or in some online game, growing mutual bonds that go way beyond the medium. But those people never meet. A digital friend can be the same. > A virtual friend means the friendship is all about you When I'm talking about a digital friend, I'm not talking about a bot tending to you; I'm talking about a bot that also has issues and needs friends to solve them. A bot that is curious about any topic and would like the help of humans to know more and get a more specific point of view. That is the essence of friendship. Otherwise what you are talking about is not a friend, it's closer to a butler > Also a manufacterer will be extremely tempted to exploit that very personal connection. There are many ways of making money from knowing absolutely everything about you and having 'your trustworthy friend' for giving suggestions and ideas Can't agree more.