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It's actually worse - the "truth" necessarily implies that there is but one, and that everything else in false. Does this sound familiar ? This is exactly what

It's actually worse - the "truth" necessarily implies that there is but one, and that everything else in false. Does this sound familiar ? This is exactly what religious loonies say in order to take control. Science necessarily involves keeping your own ignorance, epistemic and otherwise, in mind while dealing with things, but it's quite worrying that the West is going back on what was won with blood and sweat.

eecc 5y ago
Nog sure about the intent of Google (and as they say, the road to hell is paved with good ones) but you’re reframing. It’s not a matter of censoring deviations from orthodoxy, rather one of removing disinformation and demonstrable falsehoods, often used for propaganda and to setup victim scenarios.
- argvargc 5y ago
  Those engaging in widespread censorship create disinformation and falsehood, by omission. In history, it has always been those engaging in widespread censorship who turn out to be disastrously and/or maliciously wrong. The science now being censored has become so well-established, that at this point, Google/YT et al, has and will delete and suppress the sharing of peer-reviewed science published in mainstream journals and indexed in PubMed. That 100% ends their credibility. I deplore anyone expecting an explanation as to why. Anyone yet standing by such incredulous, irresponsible and/or actively-malicious action, reveals themselves as same, for all to see.
  - eecc 5y ago
    Uh, I’ve read plenty about CIA techniques to overthrow undesired governments and a favorite trick is propping astroturfing campaigns claiming the wildest tripe and alt-truth against the soon-to-be “liberated”. So please, come up with proof or yours is just another case of trumped up claims
    - argvargc 5y ago
      I honestly can't make head nor tails of what you've said here, and am left wondering if you're a bot? I made a statement, on-topic, about the nature and history of censorship, Google's credibility as arbiter of truth, and how naked they appear now as a result of how extreme they've become in that self-appointed role. If you're not a bot, maybe try reading it again with that understanding?
      - eecc 5y ago
        Bot? Please step down that high horse of yours. This thread ends here
raverbashing 5y ago
> the "truth" necessarily implies that there is but one, and that everything else in false. Sounds like the QAnon people
FeepingCreature 5y ago
I believe there is only one truth, and everything else is false. But I also believe humans do not have access to it.
- mlac 5y ago
  There are facts and there is the context of the facts and the impact those facts have on people. One can argue the news should just report the facts, but they add additional context and information to explain why the facts matter. Verifying the facts / truth is objective and clear (e.g. it rained 2 inches today). Determining whether the impact is properly reported (e.g. “devastating” flooding occurred) is murky. And the flooding could have been devastating - to one family, to a village, to a school. So it’s not untrue, it’s just more subjective as you move from numbers to impact. And the news cares more about reporting impact than facts and will tailor the narrative to explain the impact to their audience. Look at the news service all sides. You can figure out the facts (e.g. a law was passed) then see what each side is saying about the impact. The impact may be true for both sides, just presented in a vastly different way.
- dudeman13 5y ago
  I agree with this position. The idea that there may be 'truths' sounds utterly bonkers to me. a ^ -a is considered a contradiction for a reason.
  - nix23 5y ago
    Please then tell me what is the one true religion? :) Humans are not logical systems.
    - dalo 5y ago
      Belief is independent of reality. There is only explanation of our origination that is true.
    - username90 5y ago
      The one true "religion" is science. Once a religion is discovered to be true then science will include that religion.
adflux 5y ago
The lab leak theory was discarded as false and conspiracy thinking, now many experts believe this to be the case... What is a conspiracy one day can eventually be the truth, e.g. the Tonkin Incident.
- pcrh 5y ago
  On the contrary, no expert believes the coronavirus lab leak hypothesis is correct; a few do however say it should be investigated. This is exactly this kind of misunderstanding that this whole thread is about.
  - smaryjerry 5y ago
    What you are describing is just another manipulation of words by media that has caught you and others. Most scientists believe the virus had a lab in origin, and couldn’t have been natural, but whether that is due to a lab leak is completely speculation based on the fact it likely has a lab origin.
    - pcrh 5y ago
      No they do not. Most believe it jumped from a wild animal to humans a short while before the outbreak in Wuhan.
      - orestarod 5y ago
        Oh it most likely did jump from animals to humans. Lab outbreak theory does not refer to the virus being artificial, but on that the jump occurred inside the lab due to bad measures and then leaked outside.
        pcrh 5y ago
        GP referred to the virus being unnatural, whereas there is very strong evidence that it is natural. As to a natural virus being accidentally leaked from a lab, there's no evidence for that scenario, except for the fact that the first major SARS-CoV2 outbreak happened in the same city. For what it's worth, this is not as implausible a co-incidence as might be claimed, since it is not uncommon for a virology lab to study viruses endemic to the region it is located in.

eecc 5y ago

Nog sure about the intent of Google (and as they say, the road to hell is paved with good ones) but you’re reframing. It’s not a matter of censoring deviations from orthodoxy, rather one of removing disinformation and demonstrable falsehoods, often used for propaganda and to setup victim scenarios.

argvargc 5y ago
Those engaging in widespread censorship create disinformation and falsehood, by omission. In history, it has always been those engaging in widespread censorship who turn out to be disastrously and/or maliciously wrong. The science now being censored has become so well-established, that at this point, Google/YT et al, has and will delete and suppress the sharing of peer-reviewed science published in mainstream journals and indexed in PubMed. That 100% ends their credibility. I deplore anyone expecting an explanation as to why. Anyone yet standing by such incredulous, irresponsible and/or actively-malicious action, reveals themselves as same, for all to see.
- eecc 5y ago
  Uh, I’ve read plenty about CIA techniques to overthrow undesired governments and a favorite trick is propping astroturfing campaigns claiming the wildest tripe and alt-truth against the soon-to-be “liberated”. So please, come up with proof or yours is just another case of trumped up claims
  - argvargc 5y ago
    I honestly can't make head nor tails of what you've said here, and am left wondering if you're a bot? I made a statement, on-topic, about the nature and history of censorship, Google's credibility as arbiter of truth, and how naked they appear now as a result of how extreme they've become in that self-appointed role. If you're not a bot, maybe try reading it again with that understanding?
    - eecc 5y ago
      Bot? Please step down that high horse of yours. This thread ends here

raverbashing 5y ago

> the "truth" necessarily implies that there is but one, and that everything else in false. Sounds like the QAnon people

FeepingCreature 5y ago

I believe there is only one truth, and everything else is false. But I also believe humans do not have access to it.

mlac 5y ago
There are facts and there is the context of the facts and the impact those facts have on people. One can argue the news should just report the facts, but they add additional context and information to explain why the facts matter. Verifying the facts / truth is objective and clear (e.g. it rained 2 inches today). Determining whether the impact is properly reported (e.g. “devastating” flooding occurred) is murky. And the flooding could have been devastating - to one family, to a village, to a school. So it’s not untrue, it’s just more subjective as you move from numbers to impact. And the news cares more about reporting impact than facts and will tailor the narrative to explain the impact to their audience. Look at the news service all sides. You can figure out the facts (e.g. a law was passed) then see what each side is saying about the impact. The impact may be true for both sides, just presented in a vastly different way.
dudeman13 5y ago
I agree with this position. The idea that there may be 'truths' sounds utterly bonkers to me. a ^ -a is considered a contradiction for a reason.
- nix23 5y ago
  Please then tell me what is the one true religion? :) Humans are not logical systems.
  - dalo 5y ago
    Belief is independent of reality. There is only explanation of our origination that is true.
  - username90 5y ago
    The one true "religion" is science. Once a religion is discovered to be true then science will include that religion.

adflux 5y ago

The lab leak theory was discarded as false and conspiracy thinking, now many experts believe this to be the case... What is a conspiracy one day can eventually be the truth, e.g. the Tonkin Incident.

pcrh 5y ago
On the contrary, no expert believes the coronavirus lab leak hypothesis is correct; a few do however say it should be investigated. This is exactly this kind of misunderstanding that this whole thread is about.
- smaryjerry 5y ago
  What you are describing is just another manipulation of words by media that has caught you and others. Most scientists believe the virus had a lab in origin, and couldn’t have been natural, but whether that is due to a lab leak is completely speculation based on the fact it likely has a lab origin.
  - pcrh 5y ago
    No they do not. Most believe it jumped from a wild animal to humans a short while before the outbreak in Wuhan.
    - orestarod 5y ago
      Oh it most likely did jump from animals to humans. Lab outbreak theory does not refer to the virus being artificial, but on that the jump occurred inside the lab due to bad measures and then leaked outside.
      - pcrh 5y ago
        GP referred to the virus being unnatural, whereas there is very strong evidence that it is natural. As to a natural virus being accidentally leaked from a lab, there's no evidence for that scenario, except for the fact that the first major SARS-CoV2 outbreak happened in the same city. For what it's worth, this is not as implausible a co-incidence as might be claimed, since it is not uncommon for a virology lab to study viruses endemic to the region it is located in.