5 ms·

Why are they allowed to call it that even though it is not ready for the Full part? Is that not false advertising?

coolspot 5y ago
Complete Cure for any Cancer(tm) * * The statement isn’t approved by FDA. Therapeutic effect isn’t differnt from placebo in clinical trials. By reading this you forfeit any right to sue us.
- rchaud 5y ago
  I'd expect to see that on an Instagram ad for a fly by night supplement company. But from a publicly traded company that presumably have lawyers on retainer to look these things over?
  - atatatat 5y ago
    They keep their lawyers ready for the lawsuits, no time for the meaningful check and balance bullshit.
- djanogo 5y ago
  It's worse, Tesla's claims endangers others on the road.
relyks 5y ago
Yes, it's strange considering they already settled a previous lawsuit over misrepresenting the safety of the self-driving capabilities of their cars... There has been talk of potentially forming another class-action lawsuit to deal with Tesla's false advertising over autonomous driving. The whole area doesn't have many federal regulations yet. That's also part of the issue
roenxi 5y ago
I'm a fair way from the vocal HN crowd on this one. I can't see the problem with Tesla calling what they have "Full" self driving. I don't know who keeps the official definition, but I don't care what they think and vice versa. This looks like full self driving to me. You lot are very demanding. I'm not sure the public will care that much.
- rvz 5y ago
  > This looks like full self driving to me. ‘Looks’ can be deceiving. Especially when the Tesla CEO overpromised to his customers about achieving Level 5 self driving capabilities, when a year later it was found to be still admittedly ‘Level 2’. I have to give it to Musk for being able to continuously mislead his customers and continue to make money out of a product feature that does not work as advertised. If it was anyone else they would be sued to the ground. > I can't see the problem with Tesla calling what they have "Full" self driving. I have no problem with them calling it ‘Fools’ Self Driving.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  Well, when people read full self driving, they think they never have to touch the wheel in whatever circumstance. Can you remove the wheel? That the public does not care does not mean it is not a wrong message which might lead to bad accidents, by the public.
  - roenxi 5y ago
    My retort to those people is that would probably be illegal, and they shouldn't expect to be able to do illegal things. I don't think I've heard of a self driving car yet where it is OK to take your hands off the wheel.
    - tluyben2 5y ago
      The issue is that this is not about reading the small print: this is about the point that if you walk into the street, hit up a stranger and ask if the phrase 'full self driving' suggests to them that they need to keep hands on the wheel, pay attention or anything like that. There are 1000s of videos on the web where people are doing things in Teslas, including having sex, while driving and that gives me the distinct impression that the public did not read the small print and believes the marketing phrasing. It is false advertising and I find it weird that it is allowed. People will believe it and not spend time sweating the nuances like you or I would.
      - 5y ago
yyy888sss 5y ago
Even in Australia, where we have strong consumer protection, they still call it 'Full Self Driving Capability'. Then underneath: "The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. Some features require turn signals and are limited in range. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of kilometres of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."
- alecthomas 5y ago
  I guess the key word that lets them get away with it here is "Capability".
runeks 5y ago
They aren’t allowed to in Germany [1]. I wish more countries would follow suit. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/14/tesla-autopilot-self-driving-false-advertising-germany.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/14/tesla-autopilot-self-driving...
- effingwewt 5y ago
  We in the US allow businesses to be everything from sneaky to outright liars. We used to value customer satisfaction and profit, now it's just 'get too big to fail/be refulated'. I can't believe we still allow car dealerships to offer deals no one qualifies for with 10 seconds of impossible-to-follow sped up gibberish that essentially voids what they said before. Also commercials 10x louder than the programming being watched is illegal, but I challenge you to find a channel on cable that doesn't do it. Makes me hate walking by tvs.
  - dantheman 5y ago
    Car dealerships only exist because the US passed laws that mandated their existence.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      Yes, they were mandated by law. Those laws were very popular because they solved real problems. I'm not sure why "mandated by law" is assumed to be a bad thing.
t0mas88 5y ago
They very intentionally mislead in their advertising. The feature list includes this: > Full Self-Driving Computer That sounds like self driving but it absolutely isn't. You're paying for only having the computer, it doesn't work and will not work before the end of the economic life of the car but you are paying for it. All the other things you get from "full self driving" are driver assist functions that other car makers also offer.

Complete Cure for any Cancer(tm) * * The statement isn’t approved by FDA. Therapeutic effect isn’t differnt from placebo in clinical trials. By reading this you forfeit any right to sue us.

rchaud 5y ago
I'd expect to see that on an Instagram ad for a fly by night supplement company. But from a publicly traded company that presumably have lawyers on retainer to look these things over?
- atatatat 5y ago
  They keep their lawyers ready for the lawsuits, no time for the meaningful check and balance bullshit.
djanogo 5y ago
It's worse, Tesla's claims endangers others on the road.

relyks 5y ago

Yes, it's strange considering they already settled a previous lawsuit over misrepresenting the safety of the self-driving capabilities of their cars... There has been talk of potentially forming another class-action lawsuit to deal with Tesla's false advertising over autonomous driving. The whole area doesn't have many federal regulations yet. That's also part of the issue

roenxi 5y ago

I'm a fair way from the vocal HN crowd on this one. I can't see the problem with Tesla calling what they have "Full" self driving. I don't know who keeps the official definition, but I don't care what they think and vice versa. This looks like full self driving to me. You lot are very demanding. I'm not sure the public will care that much.

rvz 5y ago
> This looks like full self driving to me. ‘Looks’ can be deceiving. Especially when the Tesla CEO overpromised to his customers about achieving Level 5 self driving capabilities, when a year later it was found to be still admittedly ‘Level 2’. I have to give it to Musk for being able to continuously mislead his customers and continue to make money out of a product feature that does not work as advertised. If it was anyone else they would be sued to the ground. > I can't see the problem with Tesla calling what they have "Full" self driving. I have no problem with them calling it ‘Fools’ Self Driving.
tluyben2 5y ago
Well, when people read full self driving, they think they never have to touch the wheel in whatever circumstance. Can you remove the wheel? That the public does not care does not mean it is not a wrong message which might lead to bad accidents, by the public.
- roenxi 5y ago
  My retort to those people is that would probably be illegal, and they shouldn't expect to be able to do illegal things. I don't think I've heard of a self driving car yet where it is OK to take your hands off the wheel.
  - tluyben2 5y ago
    The issue is that this is not about reading the small print: this is about the point that if you walk into the street, hit up a stranger and ask if the phrase 'full self driving' suggests to them that they need to keep hands on the wheel, pay attention or anything like that. There are 1000s of videos on the web where people are doing things in Teslas, including having sex, while driving and that gives me the distinct impression that the public did not read the small print and believes the marketing phrasing. It is false advertising and I find it weird that it is allowed. People will believe it and not spend time sweating the nuances like you or I would.
    - 5y ago

yyy888sss 5y ago

Even in Australia, where we have strong consumer protection, they still call it 'Full Self Driving Capability'. Then underneath: "The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. Some features require turn signals and are limited in range. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of kilometres of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates."

alecthomas 5y ago
I guess the key word that lets them get away with it here is "Capability".

runeks 5y ago

They aren’t allowed to in Germany [1]. I wish more countries would follow suit. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/14/tesla-autopilot-self-driving-false-advertising-germany.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/14/tesla-autopilot-self-driving...

effingwewt 5y ago
We in the US allow businesses to be everything from sneaky to outright liars. We used to value customer satisfaction and profit, now it's just 'get too big to fail/be refulated'. I can't believe we still allow car dealerships to offer deals no one qualifies for with 10 seconds of impossible-to-follow sped up gibberish that essentially voids what they said before. Also commercials 10x louder than the programming being watched is illegal, but I challenge you to find a channel on cable that doesn't do it. Makes me hate walking by tvs.
- dantheman 5y ago
  Car dealerships only exist because the US passed laws that mandated their existence.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    Yes, they were mandated by law. Those laws were very popular because they solved real problems. I'm not sure why "mandated by law" is assumed to be a bad thing.

t0mas88 5y ago

They very intentionally mislead in their advertising. The feature list includes this: > Full Self-Driving Computer That sounds like self driving but it absolutely isn't. You're paying for only having the computer, it doesn't work and will not work before the end of the economic life of the car but you are paying for it. All the other things you get from "full self driving" are driver assist functions that other car makers also offer.