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It is frustrating that they lump in any amount of alcohol up to 2 drinks per day as moderate which honestly isn't all that moderate. Still another way to read t
by michaelmrose 5y ago
It is frustrating that they lump in any amount of alcohol up to 2 drinks per day as moderate which honestly isn't all that moderate. Still another way to read that is that while alcohol represents a real risk to community health resources you can mitigate 86% of the risk by limiting yourself to ONLY 68 gallons (257 liters) of beer this year.
I would not be terribly surprised if most of the issues with moderate drinkers concerned users were on the heavy side of "moderate"
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- fuzxi 5y agoThe number I see frequently as the threshold of "heavy drinking" is 15 drinks per week, so I certainly agree that it's not accurate to call 14 drinks per week "moderate". 15 drinks per week is actually the limit here for commercial drivers. If you admit to drinking more than that during your annual/semi-annual DMV physical, you have essentially just admitted to alcoholism and can't keep driving class A/B vehicles unless you enter a substance abuse program.
- jsbdk 5y agoThat limit wouldn't work in many countries.
- eurasiantiger 5y agoBecause those countries are either under the fiscal control of Big Booze (taxes), or they are under control of criminal enterprises (usually from neighboring country)
- taurath 5y agoOr the culture is such that people regularly use alcohol both for pleasure and to avoid their emotional issues. Real men don’t have emotions, and if you’re feeling them then it’s better to knock back a few glasses then to express them.
- theo102 5y ago> Real men don’t have emotions, and if you’re feeling them then it’s better to knock back a few glasses then to express them. Who hurt you?
- wyattpeak 5y agoI think the parent is expressing a common line of thought in such cultures, not making a statement of their own beliefs.
- eurasiantiger 5y agoAnd why do you think such a culture exists? Did it always exist? What is it influenced and kept up by?
- taurath 5y agoMachismo is a really big area of study.
- eurasiantiger 5y agoReally? You’re ready to ascribe the entirety of problematic alcohol consumption patterns simply to ”man-drinking”? That is intellectual dishonesty at its prime.
- taurath 5y agoYour theory is big booze and government corruption creates a problem of alcohol. Mine is that culturally many people really like to drink as an emotional salve. I didn’t ascribe the entire problem to it, just offering an additional or alternative cause, of which there can and must be more than one. Throwing around accusations like intellectual dishonesty sorta doesn’t help conversation.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
- fuzxi 5y agoPerhaps many countries have alcoholism problems.
- ipaddr 5y ago15 drinks a week doesn't make you an alcoholic. That's a Puritan viewpoint not a scientific one. I don't drink at all anymore but when I was younger 15 beers in a week wasn't some magic alcoholism line.
- theo102 5y agoand these limits are set arbitrarily and are often even more detrimental. If you know the doc says you can have 14 but not 15, you now have a target to be "ok" when you show up to the doctor. If the gap between 14 and 15 is linear and not somehow logarithmic then you're telling me that consuming exactly two drinks a day will be fine, but that extra scotch you have on friday makes you an alcoholic. This term is thrown around loosely by people who have never actually met an alcoholic. Even a high functioning "weekend warrior" is noticeable. The total risk for serious liver damage drinking a 6 pack a day for over 10 years is only 18%. Of these people, around 13% develop into cirrhosis. No one has been able to explain why. For some people, especially women, the effects of alcohol are far more damaging. Much like BMI, population statistics are not as useful as what actually matters. Body mass per unit alcohol consumed. A smaller person drinking 15 drinks a week may develop health problems. A 180 pound male may or may not. Am I encouraging drinking that heavily because the risk is 18%? No not at all. I am simply stating that these "drink limits" are arbitrary and completely and entirely made up. Mediterraneans, regularly cited for their longevity, consume more than 15 drinks a week on a regular basis. HN is filled with these pop-sci teetotalers who rag on alcohol but promote the uninhibited abuse of THC and other dangerous mind altering drugs. It's an absurd bizzaro world.
- shafyy 5y ago> HN is filled with these pop-sci teetotalers who rag on alcohol but promote the uninhibited abuse of THC and other dangerous mind altering drugs. It's an absurd bizzaro world. Exactly! People have been drinking for millenia, and while alcohol doesn't make you healthier, it's also clear that drinking "normally" doesn't cause major health issues (unlike, smoking cigarettes for example). Sure, if you drink 2 bottles of wine a day, you're going to have a problem. Not so much with 2 glasses of wine a day. THC, microdosing and all that other stuff is relatively new and the long-term effecs are not well researched. Shorter term, it's clear that THC can cause issues like schizophrenia, especially with teenagers. I would expect much more long-term negative effects of mind altering drugs, just because they fuck with your brain.
- rtpg 5y agoThis call to naturalism is absurd. The fact that people are drinking alcohol for millennia is not proof of it being healthy!! That makes no sense! While I generally agree about arbitrary cutoffs, 2 glasses of wine a day is a good indicator that you have alcohol in your system at least 1/3rd of your life! There are people who don’t get phased by this, but more likely people are just used to it and adapt (much like with coffee) The concept of a line being arbitrary is a thing but it’s not a crazy line (especially if you’re only drinking every other day that’s 4 glasses a day).
- taneq 5y agoWhat would you call the level below "heavy"? I'd imagine if you asked most people the scale would go something like "nondrinker", "light drinker", "moderate drinker", "heavy drinker", "full blown alcoholic". If so then 14 drinks per week is the upper end of "moderate". I'd expect it also depends on how you drink it. One restaurant-pour glass of wine with dinner every day adds up to 14 drinks a week but no reasonable person would call it "heavy drinking". (Yes, plenty of people here are saying that it is. No, they're not being reasonable.) I'd expect drinking 14 drinks in one night once a week would absolutely count as heavy drinking, though.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- gruez 5y ago>One restaurant-pour glass of wine with dinner every day adds up to 14 drinks a week but no reasonable person would call it "heavy drinking". What's the difference between a glass of wine after dinner and 700ml of beer (which is what GP's calculations work out to)? They both have the same amount of alcohol.
- archagon 5y agoA restaurant-pour of wine would be about 5oz, wouldn't it? Assuming 14% ABV, I think that would be more like 8 drinks a week.
- synquid 5y agoBut that amount is based on available research, so what is your point? See e.g. https://www.jacc.org/doi/full/10.1016/j.jacc.2017.07.710 https://www.jacc.org/doi/full/10.1016/j.jacc.2017.07.710
- the-dude 5y agoAnd keep in mind alcoholics are under-reporters ( that is, they probably drink more than they admit ). Disclaimer : former 'functioning' alcoholic.
- EugeneOZ 5y agoWhat is “drink” here? How many milliliters, what percentage of alcohol? 40%? 15%? 50ml or 200ml?
- enraged_camel 5y agoI’m wondering this too.
- brokensegue 5y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_drink https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_drink
- EugeneOZ 5y agothanks!
- ashtonkem 5y agoI’m starting to see “drinks” measured in terms of volume of pure ethanol. The UK has defined its standard drink as 10ml of pure ethanol, which conveniently comes out to a single 25ml shot of liquor. Based on the Netflix documentary I watched, it seems like they’re starting to standardize the labels of alcoholic drinks in the UK to inform consumers how many units of alcohol it represents, and also encouraging people to keep their consumption below X/Y units a day and week.
- Engineering-MD 5y agoAlcoholic drinks are all labelled now and have been for about a decade. It is useful to know how much you are drinking
- bscphil 5y ago> The UK has defined its standard drink as 10ml of pure ethanol This is interesting. In the US a standard drink [1] is often considered roughly equivalent to one can of 5% ABV beer, or a 1.5 fl oz shot of 80 proof liquor. That comes out to about ~17.5 ml of alcohol. I not-infrequently have beers that are 9% ABV. Maybe I should rethink how many servings of alcohol I have a week by international standards... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_drink https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_drink
- k__ 5y agoThis. That are two crates of beer a month. I drink 1-2 times a month and 4-5 beer a night is as much as it gets.