5 ms·

> the most unstable housing in New York City: the public housing How is public housing unstable? Are public housing residents frequently forced to move? AFAIK

> the most unstable housing in New York City: the public housing How is public housing unstable? Are public housing residents frequently forced to move? AFAIK that's the definition of unstable housing.

ipnon 5y ago
It is unstable in that 1) it is a housing option of last resort and 2) no one wants to stay longer than they need to. It is not a place where people "put down their roots," partially by design, partially by circumstances.
- bitcurious 5y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/04/nyregion/as-new-york-rents-soar-public-housing-becomes-lifelong-refuge.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/04/nyregion/as-new-york-rent... In 2015 the average length of stay was 22 years. In general the idea that folks would wait years on a waitlist with the intent of leaving ASAP doesn’t pass the smell test.
  - omginternets 5y ago
    I doubt length-of-stay is normally distributed. I would wager that the distribution is skewed heavily to the left. This would result in a that the median is much lower, with a mean that it is biased to the right due to a small number of unusually long leases. tl;dr: the mean is almost certainly the wrong statistic.
    - padastra 5y ago
      How skewed do you think it would have to be for the mean stay to be “short” eg 2-3 years, given the upper bound of human lifetime? This is one of those things that sounds smart but fails the common sense test.
      - omginternets 5y ago
        That's fair. I suppose I'll have to think about this some more (maybe with a pencil and paper). Perhaps you're right that the gap between median and mean doesn't change the final conclusion. I can't really say at this point.
    - ipnon 5y ago
      Anecdotally, my closest acquaintance in NYC public housing lived there because she is disabled, unable to work, and has no one to take care of her due to age. She has lived in the same public apartment for decades because she is dependent on the state. Her son fled the apartment after living there his whole life, because he cooperated with NYPD on a murder investigation and was threatened by the local criminal gang. Her only roommate now is her orphaned teenage grandson who is vulnerable to the gangs and has ambitions beyond his immediate circumstances.

ipnon 5y ago

It is unstable in that 1) it is a housing option of last resort and 2) no one wants to stay longer than they need to. It is not a place where people "put down their roots," partially by design, partially by circumstances.

bitcurious 5y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/04/nyregion/as-new-york-rents-soar-public-housing-becomes-lifelong-refuge.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/04/nyregion/as-new-york-rent... In 2015 the average length of stay was 22 years. In general the idea that folks would wait years on a waitlist with the intent of leaving ASAP doesn’t pass the smell test.
- omginternets 5y ago
  I doubt length-of-stay is normally distributed. I would wager that the distribution is skewed heavily to the left. This would result in a that the median is much lower, with a mean that it is biased to the right due to a small number of unusually long leases. tl;dr: the mean is almost certainly the wrong statistic.
  - padastra 5y ago
    How skewed do you think it would have to be for the mean stay to be “short” eg 2-3 years, given the upper bound of human lifetime? This is one of those things that sounds smart but fails the common sense test.
    - omginternets 5y ago
      That's fair. I suppose I'll have to think about this some more (maybe with a pencil and paper). Perhaps you're right that the gap between median and mean doesn't change the final conclusion. I can't really say at this point.
  - ipnon 5y ago
    Anecdotally, my closest acquaintance in NYC public housing lived there because she is disabled, unable to work, and has no one to take care of her due to age. She has lived in the same public apartment for decades because she is dependent on the state. Her son fled the apartment after living there his whole life, because he cooperated with NYPD on a murder investigation and was threatened by the local criminal gang. Her only roommate now is her orphaned teenage grandson who is vulnerable to the gangs and has ambitions beyond his immediate circumstances.