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In reality Norway is the Saudi Arabia of the north, but with fantastic PR. Really, the best PR that money can buy. Bill Gates/George W Bush level PR, but for a

by tpmx 5y ago

In reality Norway is the Saudi Arabia of the north, but with fantastic PR. Really, the best PR that money can buy. Bill Gates/George W Bush level PR, but for a country. They're going all out on going green in every part of society.. except for not stopping pumping oil from the sea bed and then selling it to people for the purpose of combusting it and releasing the co2 into the atmosphere. The sad thing is that it seems to work really well for them. Giant kudos to Greenland for resisting this way and showing the norwegians how to do this.

lastofthemojito 5y ago
In a sense then, Norway is a microcosm of all human civilization. Since the early days of humanity we've burned trees, peat, whale oil, petroleum, whatever we could, side effects be damned. And for most of that time, there's been no sustainable plan to move away from such consumption. At least Norway is now using their oil wealth to try to plot an alternative course forward. We're not there yet, but at least they're not pumping oil today AND acting like pumping oil is the future as well.
- tpmx 5y ago
  This is how good their PR is! Maybe kidding.
- munk-a 5y ago
  I disagree - it isn't just in recent times that dumping waste into waterways that people consume has been discouraged. For most of human history we've been ignorant on how we're hurting ourselves through pollution, but as we've learned how harmful pollution can be we've worked to minimize it. Dying and leather curing was, for a large part of history, about the most toxic thing you could do and so those facilities were usually forced away from the most dense population centers - and sewers have been a thing for a loooong time. I think the first time folks realized that sending smoke up into the air might actually be harmful is when London started having ash clouds from industrialization, but that's just one sort of pollution. Humanity actually has a pretty good record for cutting in and regulating things that they know are harmful.
pengaru 5y ago
Using oil to fuel your pivot off oil, economically or directly for energy, strikes me as the most sensible use of oil for any nation. What's upsetting is how much of the oil burned so far, and continuing to be burned today, is completely frivolous and unnecessary. To still be carrying on this way when we still haven't pivoted from fossil fuels as a species, given clear evidence we're headed for global climate disaster, is completely asinine. We need something like a carbon tax something fierce, it needs to be cost prohibitive to fly across the country by jet for a weekend change of scenery and some instagram selfies.
- tpmx 5y ago
  They have a giant oil fund ($1.3T) already, why not use that? Show some balls like Greenland just did. You are shifting the blame from the entitity who pumps to oil up from the sea bed to the entity which combusts it. Why?
  - pengaru 5y ago
    I have no problem with the entity combusting it if they're doing it to drive their nation's pivot off fossil fuels. Surely Norway sells its oil to nations manufacturing the very things Norway requires to build its green future. My problem is with frivolous waste of oil and the externalized costs of its use being placed on future generations enabling such waste.
  - SuoDuanDao 5y ago
    Possibly because an invasion of Norway with the tacit approval of the EU wouldn't be as much of a stretch as you imagine. The oil must flow. Look at Venezuela if you believe otherwise.
    - tpmx 5y ago
      This TV series was mostly bad, but sometimes exciting. I saw it all, unfortunately. Did you actually take the premise seriously? Norway getting invaded because they removed 2% of the global oil supply is not realistic.
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
Norway is sort of like a drug pusher who is trying to wean themselves off of getting high on their own supply.
- tpmx 5y ago
  Stretching that analogy quite a bit, I'd say Norway is more like a drug producing cartel that has gotten really rich from selling drugs to the rest of the world, but is now half-heartedly trying to stop because they've grown a conscience, but at the same time the hunger for money is so much stronger. So they're using their riches to at least make it appear that they're really good, conscious people.
originalvichy 5y ago
I am definitely biased but I’d still want to ask this: Why is this ”good PR” and not just doing the sensible for the time being? A day will hopefully come when they will feel like they can stop extracting because of no more need. Right now most countries have been slower than Norway in modernizing. France is a glowing uranium beacon of hope in emission free electricity but even it has been slower in modernizing the car fleet for example.
jazzyjackson 5y ago
I feel like Saudi Arabia’s bad rap is not merely a result if its success in the oil industry.
atatatat 5y ago
Norway will learn only how to remain broke.
- saati 5y ago
  The richest reasonably sized country in europe? They also don't spend the oil riches directly but put them in a huge wealth fund, it's around $1.3T, and it holds more than a percent of all global stocks and shares. I'm pretty sure they will be all right.
Hammershaft 5y ago
There are many worse offenders then those who sell fossil fuels and use the revenue to make yourself sustainable. Canada and Australia come to mind :/
kzrdude 5y ago
I'm not sure that Norway is special in any way. I think the western democratic countries just all hold each other in high esteem and don't criticize each other on underlying issues such as this. You could say the same for a lot of issues - Germany, UK, Sweden etc, high profile but big arms producers and exporters etc.
dalbasal 5y ago
IMO, it's cheap to reduce these to "it's all the same." Norway manages their oil wealth better than any country manages their wealth. Structurally, their actually prepared for oil ending. They use the cash to provide social safety nets for their citizens. Besides that Norway is quite decent on democratic freedoms, rights and such. Saudi Arabia is politically medieval. Oil and everything else is owned by the monarchy and aristocracy for their benefit. They rely on religion and tribalism to buffer political rights or social change of any kind. Etc. Sure. You can reduce every country to their sins and declare that all are equally wretched. Usually, this is cynical viewpoint made up of whataboutisms exonerating anything because everyone and everything is bad.
fomine3 5y ago
Saying Norway is Saudi on north is heavily overrating for Saudi. Check what they do.

by tpmx 5y ago

lastofthemojito 5y ago

In a sense then, Norway is a microcosm of all human civilization. Since the early days of humanity we've burned trees, peat, whale oil, petroleum, whatever we could, side effects be damned. And for most of that time, there's been no sustainable plan to move away from such consumption. At least Norway is now using their oil wealth to try to plot an alternative course forward. We're not there yet, but at least they're not pumping oil today AND acting like pumping oil is the future as well.

tpmx 5y ago
This is how good their PR is! Maybe kidding.
munk-a 5y ago
I disagree - it isn't just in recent times that dumping waste into waterways that people consume has been discouraged. For most of human history we've been ignorant on how we're hurting ourselves through pollution, but as we've learned how harmful pollution can be we've worked to minimize it. Dying and leather curing was, for a large part of history, about the most toxic thing you could do and so those facilities were usually forced away from the most dense population centers - and sewers have been a thing for a loooong time. I think the first time folks realized that sending smoke up into the air might actually be harmful is when London started having ash clouds from industrialization, but that's just one sort of pollution. Humanity actually has a pretty good record for cutting in and regulating things that they know are harmful.

pengaru 5y ago

Using oil to fuel your pivot off oil, economically or directly for energy, strikes me as the most sensible use of oil for any nation. What's upsetting is how much of the oil burned so far, and continuing to be burned today, is completely frivolous and unnecessary. To still be carrying on this way when we still haven't pivoted from fossil fuels as a species, given clear evidence we're headed for global climate disaster, is completely asinine. We need something like a carbon tax something fierce, it needs to be cost prohibitive to fly across the country by jet for a weekend change of scenery and some instagram selfies.

tpmx 5y ago
They have a giant oil fund ($1.3T) already, why not use that? Show some balls like Greenland just did. You are shifting the blame from the entitity who pumps to oil up from the sea bed to the entity which combusts it. Why?
- pengaru 5y ago
  I have no problem with the entity combusting it if they're doing it to drive their nation's pivot off fossil fuels. Surely Norway sells its oil to nations manufacturing the very things Norway requires to build its green future. My problem is with frivolous waste of oil and the externalized costs of its use being placed on future generations enabling such waste.
- SuoDuanDao 5y ago
  Possibly because an invasion of Norway with the tacit approval of the EU wouldn't be as much of a stretch as you imagine. The oil must flow. Look at Venezuela if you believe otherwise.
  - tpmx 5y ago
    This TV series was mostly bad, but sometimes exciting. I saw it all, unfortunately. Did you actually take the premise seriously? Norway getting invaded because they removed 2% of the global oil supply is not realistic.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago

Norway is sort of like a drug pusher who is trying to wean themselves off of getting high on their own supply.

tpmx 5y ago
Stretching that analogy quite a bit, I'd say Norway is more like a drug producing cartel that has gotten really rich from selling drugs to the rest of the world, but is now half-heartedly trying to stop because they've grown a conscience, but at the same time the hunger for money is so much stronger. So they're using their riches to at least make it appear that they're really good, conscious people.

originalvichy 5y ago

I am definitely biased but I’d still want to ask this: Why is this ”good PR” and not just doing the sensible for the time being? A day will hopefully come when they will feel like they can stop extracting because of no more need. Right now most countries have been slower than Norway in modernizing. France is a glowing uranium beacon of hope in emission free electricity but even it has been slower in modernizing the car fleet for example.

jazzyjackson 5y ago

I feel like Saudi Arabia’s bad rap is not merely a result if its success in the oil industry.

atatatat 5y ago

Norway will learn only how to remain broke.

saati 5y ago
The richest reasonably sized country in europe? They also don't spend the oil riches directly but put them in a huge wealth fund, it's around $1.3T, and it holds more than a percent of all global stocks and shares. I'm pretty sure they will be all right.

Hammershaft 5y ago

There are many worse offenders then those who sell fossil fuels and use the revenue to make yourself sustainable. Canada and Australia come to mind :/

kzrdude 5y ago

I'm not sure that Norway is special in any way. I think the western democratic countries just all hold each other in high esteem and don't criticize each other on underlying issues such as this. You could say the same for a lot of issues - Germany, UK, Sweden etc, high profile but big arms producers and exporters etc.

dalbasal 5y ago

IMO, it's cheap to reduce these to "it's all the same." Norway manages their oil wealth better than any country manages their wealth. Structurally, their actually prepared for oil ending. They use the cash to provide social safety nets for their citizens. Besides that Norway is quite decent on democratic freedoms, rights and such. Saudi Arabia is politically medieval. Oil and everything else is owned by the monarchy and aristocracy for their benefit. They rely on religion and tribalism to buffer political rights or social change of any kind. Etc. Sure. You can reduce every country to their sins and declare that all are equally wretched. Usually, this is cynical viewpoint made up of whataboutisms exonerating anything because everyone and everything is bad.

fomine3 5y ago

Saying Norway is Saudi on north is heavily overrating for Saudi. Check what they do.