4 ms·

> Obviously, if I work as a developer making a stock trading app, I shouldn't be making a competing stock trading app after hours. For rank-and-file employees,

> Obviously, if I work as a developer making a stock trading app, I shouldn't be making a competing stock trading app after hours. For rank-and-file employees, I don't think this is so obvious. It presents a potential conflict of interest, sure, but if I'm fulfilling my job responsibilities and not holding anything back or stealing nonpublic info/trade secrets/whatever then what's the problem? It shouldn't be the mere possibility of competition--we like competition, remember? In America we default to the corporation's rights taking precedence over the individual's rights. We say the mere risk that an employee's side projects might step on their employer's (poorly defined) rights in some way is enough to preemptively assign ownership of all the employee's work to their employer, just in case. From the viewpoint of the corporate masters and the lifelong-conditioned wage-slave masses, that seems good and right; in a vacuum, IMO, it seems completely backwards. We should be trying to nucleate innovation, not stifle it. Why should an employee with a good idea, who is not paid to have ideas in that scope, jump through whatever hoops it takes to get their employer to notice it--probably at the cost of their own time, uncompensated--and let said employer reap the lion's share of the rewards? Even for employees who are literally paid to generate ideas, for product design or strategy or whatever else, the onus should be on the employer to provide a good value proposition for employees to share their ideas (the original contents of their own minds) rather than hold onto them. In reality I see plenty of cases where this does happen, so while the "shower idea" argument is compelling enough, I don't think it's an effect that stands to substantially threaten corporate success regardless of whatever rote legalese appears in employment agreements. At the very least, even if (the general) you don't agree with me, you should take a step back and consider whether your personal ethic of capitalism is giving employers more moral weight than they are really due.

orangecat 5y ago
It presents a potential conflict of interest, sure, but if I'm fulfilling my job responsibilities and not holding anything back or stealing nonpublic info/trade secrets/whatever then what's the problem? This is a bit like "sure I'm dating one of my direct reports, but as long as I don't show them any special treatment what's the problem?". In both cases even if you genuinely believe what you're saying, it causes your incentives to be very much misaligned with your employer's.
- caconym_ 5y ago
  My incentives are never going to be in perfect alignment with my employer: I work for them to build my own wealth, and they employ me to build theirs. The foundation of the employer-employee relationship is that each provides the other with a means to realize their incentive in a way that's mutually satisfactory, if asymmetric. If this relationship is out of balance, either party is free to engage in negotiations or terminate the relationship. Employers have concrete strategies available to them for maintaining their position in this negotiated relationship. Typically they will have a performance review process, which should have no problem determining whether they're getting what they're paying me for. Separately, the legal system we're both subject to protects legitimate intellectual property perfectly well without overbearing noncompetes and invention assignments; cases of physical property theft, etc., are also covered. So what's the problem? Why should employers have additional rights to make sure that, if the situation is ever remotely muddy, it goes their way by default? (I say should in the moral sense, and the broader sense of socioeconomic utility. In a might-makes-right frame, obviously they should have it simply because they are strong enough to take it. That is what we have right now, in practice.)

orangecat 5y ago

It presents a potential conflict of interest, sure, but if I'm fulfilling my job responsibilities and not holding anything back or stealing nonpublic info/trade secrets/whatever then what's the problem? This is a bit like "sure I'm dating one of my direct reports, but as long as I don't show them any special treatment what's the problem?". In both cases even if you genuinely believe what you're saying, it causes your incentives to be very much misaligned with your employer's.

caconym_ 5y ago
My incentives are never going to be in perfect alignment with my employer: I work for them to build my own wealth, and they employ me to build theirs. The foundation of the employer-employee relationship is that each provides the other with a means to realize their incentive in a way that's mutually satisfactory, if asymmetric. If this relationship is out of balance, either party is free to engage in negotiations or terminate the relationship. Employers have concrete strategies available to them for maintaining their position in this negotiated relationship. Typically they will have a performance review process, which should have no problem determining whether they're getting what they're paying me for. Separately, the legal system we're both subject to protects legitimate intellectual property perfectly well without overbearing noncompetes and invention assignments; cases of physical property theft, etc., are also covered. So what's the problem? Why should employers have additional rights to make sure that, if the situation is ever remotely muddy, it goes their way by default? (I say should in the moral sense, and the broader sense of socioeconomic utility. In a might-makes-right frame, obviously they should have it simply because they are strong enough to take it. That is what we have right now, in practice.)